Warden or Demon Hunters (Abilities Considered)

[HumeAegis]

Well, I haven't been playing TFT in a while and I have decided I am going to start again. I was mainly a Undead player (under the name HumeAegis) and I think I am going to swtich to a new account and be a mainly Night Elf player.

Should I make the first hero the Demon Hunter or the Warden? And if the Warden what do you recommend: Shadowstrike and Fan of Knives, or Blink?

Thanks,
Chad

[smeagol]

it depends of your enemys race
I would go Warden against UD (with both FoK and SS), DH against NE and HU, and KotG (or Beast Master) against Orc

[Zoltan]

For hero's i go

DH=HU(get rid of MK's mana and ams mana)

Potm=Elf(Its more like a mass hunt war)

Warden=UD(rips ghouls apart for ur 2nd abil wait till u know wat hes getting feinds or ghouls if ghouls get blink if feinds get SS)

Kotg=ORC(entagle + grunts+ff=dead grunt, grunts cost a lot so entangle more like kills one of them so its easy kill)

hope this helps :)

[Sabretooth]

I would rather see someone use the Warden against me as UD, Mana Burn on the DK makes for a useless hero.

[AbandonAllHope]

i usually go DH v All or warden depends on what i feel for =)

[HumeAegis]

Thanks.

Well, what should the first ability for the Warden be? I have a pretty good idea of what to get for the DH and KoTG.

[Zoltan]

Fan, u cant belive how much it owns ghouls. If they arnt going ghouls get SS.

[Prism]

Against NE and Orc DH.
Against Humans and UD Warden.

[Merlyn]

I like going first SS to harass, then getting FoK, then fill in whatever I need.

[BigWeso]

And if the Warden what do you recommend: Shadowstrike and Fan of Knives, or Blink?

For warden skills, SS/FOK/FOK/SS/FOK/Vengence/SS/Blink/Blink/Blink.

I agree with Zoltan's hero selection, except maybe DH/Beastmaster instead of kotg vs orc. I like having more meat so that I can get archers rather than hunts. Also, DH's mana burn helps a lot vs both FS and BM.

[Gladiator]

dh vs random, nobody mentioned that.

[Zoltan]

i usually scout asap, when i go agaisnt a random so i can just make a hero choice

[IJJusion]

DH all the way

i find its better to choose a hero depending on the map not on ur opponent
eg i always choose DH for plunder cause he can creep alot ezier on that map compared to the other heros, also he is better for fast exp

[blackangel_tkl]

for me.. i DH for all.. meat wall needed.. archers' ff.. warden need intensive micro w/ it.. n warden has lesse life.. 2nd hero warden recommended.. skills for warden.. if vs UD, fok/ss/fok/ss/fok/vengence/ss/blink/blink/blink.... vs the rest of the race, ss/fok/fok/ss/fok/veng/ss/blink/blink/blink..

[CraZyKoKeNo]

i would always go dh, mana burn is gosu. however if UD then warden no doubt. if he goes fiends or ghouls, FoK is still a good choice either way. besides with NE being so underpowered a half way decent AoE really helps now

[HiMuRa]

Doesn't anyone goes Warden VS. Orc? Warden's SS vs. FS = PwNzZzZ, Isn't it?

[IJJusion]

Doesn't anyone goes Warden VS. Orc? Warden's SS vs. FS = PwNzZzZ, Isn't it?
yea but if he/she goes BM then warden gets PwNzZzZ

[HiMuRa]

..Oh... lol okay. Most of the Orcs get FS anyway.

[StrykerD]

I use warden for all except HU, where i go DH.. but then again im a noob.. ^^

[Crysknife]

Vs. UD I always get Warden with the following abilities:
SS-FoK-FoK-SS-FoK-Vengence

SS first so you can harrass the acolytes.

Does FoK hit air units?

[EvilKnevil]

yes ... FoK hits air units,
it owns mass gargoyles,
well if u FoK and focus fire with arch on gargs, then they die pretty quick,
although UD AoE and nuke owns arch,
Warden vs UD and ORC ... for ORC SS first since FoK is not that good against orc units ... FoK for UD, since both ghouls and gargs get owned
DH vs NE and HU ....

[CLasH[UTD]]

Yes Fok Does Hit Air Units. Thats Why Its So Crucial To Have Against Ne.

[Draconic]

I use warden VS UD and possibly NE but for that i mostly go PoTm for HU i get a DH and VS ORC i get either KoTg or BeastMaster

D. Out

[W1ck3dK1d]

Here's the rundown. Don't listen to any of these people. Listen to yourself. You're playstyle should decide you're hero. If you want to use potm against UD, do it. If u want to use mannoroth on turtle rock, do it. Sure there will be disadvantages, but how do you think these ub3r strats were discovered, people playing what they want.

[BigWeso]

Here's the rundown. Don't listen to any of these people. Listen to yourself. You're playstyle should decide you're hero. If you want to use potm against UD, do it. If u want to use mannoroth on turtle rock, do it. Sure there will be disadvantages, but how do you think these ub3r strats were discovered, people playing what they want.

He was asking for suggestions, so of course we told him what we use....
Did anyone say anything was wrong with POTM vs UD? If I get two heroes, potm is always second vs UD.
What is a mannoroth?

BTW, something to keep in mind...Strength or agility heroes are always the best for NE b/c of having all weak units until tier 2 mgs. Some people like KOTG for orc, but BM always kills my kotg, so I get Beastmaster or DH. I also agree that vs random go DH, b/c he is the most versatile and really works in all matchups.

[Demongod86]

mannoroth is the pit lord from the campaign in RoC. Mannoroth=pitlord.

[Tryder]

I like to have Warden w/ FoK if I'm harassing NE (if all of the wisps on lumber are clustered together), and I use Warden w/ SS against Humans. Not sure why, but I feel that I have the most success that way. If my opponent is going UD w/ mass Ghouls then I use DH w/ Immolation if I'm harassing (because that tends to be when I get surrounded) but otherwise DH w/ MB vs. Orc & UD. In team games I always go KotG though if I'm rushing. I've become rather fond of his abilities lately, dunno why.

[Short-_-Bus]

Dh then waren dh mana burn/evation warden ss/fok

get warden after u r least lvl 3 fan 1st vs ud/ne ss 1st vs hu/orc

[EdgarAllanPoe]

it depends what u are playing against
vs hu dh usually works or warden for AM killing it got nerfed though
vs orc kotg for grunt harrass or dh for burning fs
vs UD warden with fok > ghoul
vs ne dh because if u dont they will lol

[W1ck3dK1d]

vs orc kotg for grunt harrass or dh for burning fs



acctually I think warden is best for fs harass.

[BigWeso]

acctually I think warden is best for fs harass.

Meh, Warden is not nearly as good as kotg or DH. I prefer both (DH first). Mana Burn works vs both FS and BM(which I am seeing more and more of). I think DH is overall the better choice vs orc. Warden gets killed easily by BM...

[Wren]

Warden is nice... but killing the FS mana is just too good to pass up. Besides the DH is a freaking tank.. the warden.. not so much. if the FS can keep creating wolves or CL'n your warden she isn't going to live as long. The DH will really hurt them because they won't be able to do a thing.

[PITagoRAS]

sup man?
If u wanna a normal game wihout cheeses go dh.He is a normal, decent and versatile hero.
Now, if u wanna abuse all that blizz offers for the poor and weak ne, go warden.But she is vry micro-intensive:U need be vry cautious when making fok, u cant wrong the f1 hotkey for f2!!!!!Then see the abuse happens:Ghouls dying instantly and gargs too.Oh, if u are in a tavern map more lucky for u:get panda and own even more his ass......Dont forget it in abuse all your cheap ne items:Get anti-magic pots, heal pots and invul pots since the poor and vry good ud ppl will try to get his micro-intensive getting all nova/coil/impale on u.Well, dont worry, while he needs micro like crazy, u can anulate everything getting in your items =D
(if u see well, thats a flame for ne ppl and too for ud ppl that lost to warden =p)

[Reesa-chan]

I must be the only person who goes Blink second, lol. It's nice to have when your opponent likes to mass units and knows how to surround. Blink is bloody annoying. :)

I just get it level 1 and then work on the other abilities. Kinda like a "for use only in emergency" thing.

[thegame]

I almost always get a lvl2 blink... costs only 10 mana and you can easily run in the battle, use Fok/ss, and then blink out. Prevents the Warden from dying. If you go ss and Fok, you wouldnt have enough mana.

[BigWeso]

I almost always get a lvl2 blink... costs only 10 mana and you can easily run in the battle, use Fok/ss, and then blink out. Prevents the Warden from dying. If you go ss and Fok, you wouldnt have enough mana.

Get mana pots for warden. Well worth it since both FOK and SS own. I have not needed blink in any of my games. Only useful vs DL when he sleeps or MK(you should use DH anyway vs HU). I would rather micro hero then waste a skill. You have TP if you mess up once...I dont see how you could mess up that badly more than once.

[escariot]

I must be the only second person who uses blink, blink has such great applications when the warden has high level. I generally go ss/blink/ss/blink/blink/ult/ss/fok/fok/fok. But then, I haven't used warden much since 1.15, maybe things are different. Nowadays I use DH vs all, he has the best applications, especially for 1v1. For 2v2s it depends on the map and the opponents/my partners' races.

[Demongod86]

Here's the real rundown:

Vs. UD: Both heroes work here but while mana burn will do a decent job of stopping a coil or nova or two, it won't save your army from getting absolutely smashed. Warden is better with her fan here.

Vs. HU: Again, both heroes work here but humans units have somewhat higher HP and if your DH isn't too strong, the bolts you'll be eating will spell GG for you. DH to mana burn MK wins here.

Vs. Orcs: Again, either hero works, but with warden, you HAVE TO KILL the far seer for the harass to pay off in any way, shape, or form. Should you fail (and the warden is more fragile and weaker in strikes than the DH) the FS will buy a healing salve and you will have done nothing. With a DH, just keep mana burning and keeping your distance. If the orc uses a clarity pot/salve, wham, mana burn again. Also, if the orc goes Blademaster, your warden is a far worse of a hero than the DH. DH wins it here.

Vs NE: Warden does NOT work here. In fact, she is probably the last hero you want to use in this matchup for the simple reason that the POTM is the elf-mirror hero if you're going huntlista, DH completely shuts warden down, and kotg's entangle and flanking treants will do a lot better job of taking out hunts and archers since it poses no risk to you than shadow strike/fan. DH is THE BEST hero for this matchup since you should not lose to huntlista, at which point POTM becomes worse, and DH only gets better.

Anyway, if you wanna know which hero to use in most matchups, just ask Mr.Cygnus!

[Noobjitsu]

Demongod just summed it up. Warden is good vs UD but DH is much more versatile since he can be effective vs any race. DH is both a hero killer and a tanker too. I only use Warden against UD.

[Phantasy]

I dont think killing the FS is so important as game-changing, but it is significant as it gives you a slight advantage. I found DH more useful because Mana Burn does shut down the FS completely.

[thegame]

Yup, DH against orc and NE and Warden against HU and UD. Warden is good against HU also.

[haris_me]

the warden has most of its advantages vs ud becausse FoK + SS + good micro = GG stupid ud player. however dh is a much more versatile hero he is a sort of an agile tank and its very tough to stop demon hunter at lvl 6. also when u have evasion and mana burn used regularly the dh isnt dieing soon and if u can regularly use mana burn every nuke can be countered hoe ever immolation owns footies , ghouls, peasants, peons, militia and many other small units

[SK.Malystryx]

imo
ss/fok/blink/fok/blink/vengeance up to lvl 6
no point remaining lvl 1 blink 50 mana lvl 2 is 10 mana so more mana for FoK :]

[gg_ironman]

I think warden is better than demon hunter

[Demongod86]

DH>>Warden in more circumstances than Warden>>DH, for the simple reason that NE die badly to two things: siege and spells. Pierce is a problem, yes, but it isn't catastrophic. That said, a warden cannot stop siege, unless it's mortars. Fan can't hit demos, and nor can shadow strike. Also, against humans, you better go DH or you're fucked as soon as that dwarf comes out. Simply put: NE have to fight it out through the tiers. Whenever gg will be called, your opponent will have pretty much gotten whatever he wanted to, and heroes will be of decent level. That having been said, if your warden or a bear gets smashed with a level 3 bolt, it's gg that unit or hero. However, with a DH around, that MK's mana will go down to zero, which is a MUST. And another thing: why is a hero a hero and not a unit? Because they hava mana, which they use for devastating effects. You can Fan and SS that MK as much as you want, but the fact of the matter is this: his HP can be 1 for all you care and that bolt will still be every bit as deadly as though he was at full HP. However, with mana burn, the humans, ESPECIALLY HUMANS, are dead in the water. The reason being is this: humans are SLOW. They CANNOT escape combat without great difficulty. If humans are without mana, they are dead ducks. If you burn out a DK and a Lich, worst to worst, that DK and lich and the UD army high-tail it and you're not going to catch them in a footrace. Ditto with an NE huntress army. Orcs can stand and fight because they're the brute force race. However, humans are the MAGIC race. Shut down the magic and it's gg humans.

Another thing: a DH can compete, and WIN consistently against a blademaster that is detected (and you will have detection). A Warden has a much harder time because she is far more frail.

But anyway, who says you can't get a warden second? I can tell you that a warden saved my ass in a game against humans. DH/Warden won me the game after both mines were used up, hero kills were racked up, and heroes were all high levels. A level 10 Warden means the death of an army, and lots of heroes with enough moonwells around. A DH in metamorphasis also can kill an army quite easily in a domino effect (kill one unit, and the splash will seriously hurt another two. Kill the least healthy one, then move onto the next, and eventually, it'll take 2 hits apiece to kill any unit in the enemy army in meta.) But Warden is great when you need the kills, but the thing about warden is that she's hit or miss. Either you KILL them or you achieve nothing. Even if you DON'T kill them with a DH, you burned out their mana, and without mana, you have a huge advantage in battle.

And ANOTHER thing: a DH covers a tech VERY well. He can harass like a god, even late into the game, at which point he is still quite awesome. So can warden, but mana is a much more valuable resource than HP.

[kadster]

DH all the way :)

[Shippo]

the mana burn doesnt work so dramaticly on the big FS mana pool
it usefull against BM and TC but not against FS

heres my hero choice:
vs orc: beastmaster (best) / kotg / warden (SS+Blink > FS)
vs human: DH (best) / warden
vs UD: warden
vs NE: potm / DH / warden

[KiLaZ-R-uS]

Vs. UD I always get Warden with the following abilities:
SS-FoK-FoK-SS-FoK-Vengence

SS first so you can harrass the acolytes.

Does FoK hit air units?

yea fok does it air units.. but what about blink? if you get surrounded blink can work wonders :) i say FoK - Blink - FoK - SS - FoK - Vengence

[Merlyn]

The problem with that is that you have two lvl 1 spells, something I try to avoid. I suggest you just work on your micro on don't get surrounded. Of course, if you still get surrounded, use it.

[Kodi]

vs NE - Warden
vs everything else - DH

FoK really rapes wisps when harrassing and whenever i play NE and pick warden i usually set them back some wood and around 240 gold by killing the wood wisps

[Prism]

For NE vs NE DH is the safest choice.Warden is an excellent hero.Abuse all the way.I don't know why most of you reccomend getting DH against hum.MK rapes DH and warden both.Burn helps but brilliance+the occasional mana pot=GG DH.I can't pass up the chance of owning the low HP preists and sorcs with the high damging spells of the warden.Plus she goes nicely with many strats of NE.

[Demongod86]

Prism, you can spam mana burn on the MK long enough to keep the bolts down to 1 or 2. And by the time you fight the human, you should have antimagic potions, which last long enough to burn an MK to zero. And what level is that MK anyway? 3 or 4 at most, right? Or the game is already decided.

Lucky, warden is out of her element vs. NE. DH shuts her down and makes her look VERY stupid, and with the DH being a popular hero, your warden is in for it.

And shippo: mana burn is good in all situations. While intel heroes have lots of mana, they DON'T have lots of health. Sure, it's no coil, but it hurts. Especially when you go quick tech and then harass the level 1 or 2 AM with a DH/Warden before their MK pops out. It's rape.

[Prism]

Maybe you're right.But I'm afraid of trying DH.I only use Warden.Grown accustomed to it.

[Merlyn]

I guarantee you, the DH is 10 times more addictive as the Warden.

[Meru]

DH is a solid hero, mana burn is to be feared, and nobody nukes metamorphosis demon hunter because it's a solid waste of mana.

Warden is a little more fragile, at 1 armor less, but Shadow Strike is great for harassing, and FoK is *the best* in NE crowd control.

They both have their merits, but I'm a warden junkie

[Shippo]

And shippo: mana burn is good in all situations. While intel heroes have lots of mana, they DON'T have lots of health. Sure, it's no coil, but it hurts. Especially when you go quick tech and then harass the level 1 or 2 AM with a DH/Warden before their MK pops out. It's rape.

AM WE costs alot, so the mana burn works better against AM at lvl 1/2
but FS wolves are cheaper, sure you can burn the hell out of him untile he'll run out of mana. but i rather having lvl 2 SS and little focus fire and the FS TP away

and Prism: mana burn is really needed against the MK, and if the human doesnt build arcane tower in the erly stages immolation is a peasants havoc

[No.LiFE.]

ppl should choose wtv hero they want.. its wtv 1 u like most... and wtv 1 ur best with

[bladedruid]

I find that the Dh is a lot better tank and is usefull when against caster heros

warden is better for UD but in everyother situation the DH is better

[Deafinator]

I usually go dh a lot lately but I still use warden because I just using ss and fok =\

[Quaka]

hum = ward/dh
UD = Ward/potm
NE = potm till lvl 6 then whatever hero u want
Orc = dh/kotg or dh/bm

[Wren]

one note about PotM in a mirror. If the other guy has a keeper don't even both with starfall, unless your using it for creeping or after the keeper is dead. It can, and WILL be inturrupted. Only use the PotM has is aura and arrows. Just damage... DH however cannot be inturrupted, and late game is MUCH more valuable.

I'm of the mindset to use the following:

HU = DH/Naga or DH solo
UD = DH solo, DH/PotM, Warden/Panda
Orc = Keeper/DH or DH/Keeper
NE = Keeper/PotM, DH/PotM/Keeper, or DH/Naga (when quick teching)

[avnos]

yes fok hits air

[Meru]

one note about PotM in a mirror. If the other guy has a keeper don't even both with starfall, unless your using it for creeping or after the keeper is dead. It can, and WILL be inturrupted. Only use the PotM has is aura and arrows. Just damage...

anti-magic potions are sold in the Night Elf shops, potions of invulnerability work against that pesky entangling roots too.

Just because searing arrows and trueshot is the BEST uses for her, doesn't mean it's the ONLY use for her.

[Wren]

ohh good call =)
PotM is the SHAZNATS!

[nigel]

I use shadow strike, FoK , strike , blink , FoK

[ItsAbOutTimE]

Warden vs UD/Orc... and I guess DH agnst HU

[StrykerD]

IMHO DH should be used against UD, as well as HU and Orc, Warden sometimes.. maybe as a second hero..