Writing Tips

[Vaulander]

Writing Tips:

Some of you may want to write a story in your head, but are not sure on how to go about it, how to set things up, or how to give the reader the vision in your head. There are a few points you may want to keep in mind as you write, and I will try to explain these so it is easier for new writers to get where they want to go with a story.

1. General plots and subplots:
The first thing you want to do is figure out where the story starts and where it ends. Of course you probably have a good idea on this already, but it is good to keep these two points in mind so you don’t lose track of what you are doing. Between these two points there are a lot of things that can happen, various scenes and images that you want to include. Sort of like cut-scenes in a movie, or pieces of a puzzle that together make a picture. Often you may have several scenes going on at the same time in different places, and you should do your best to make them fit with each other. A good example of this is the Lord of the Rings trilogy, where the party is split and you get scenes from both lines intermingled.

2. Characters:
The people you write about, obviously. Try to make them into people, such as you may meet on the street, instead of just two dimensional things. Apart from their looks, the clothes they wear, etc, their feelings and mindsets are also very important to make the story good. If you really get into this, you may find that the characters write the story themselves, and all you have to do is make sure they get from point A to B and let them ‘decide’ what happens in between by following the way they think and how they react to things.

3. Scenic descriptions:
This is how you describe where the characters are, or the setting you have for a particular scene/mood. Try to imagine the view as a camera. Looking at movies we have great sweeping movements for travel, showing nature and such, while a savage battle scene is more focused on what the characters do and very little background. And of course, romance is a mix of scene, characters, sounds (no, you probably wont hear Celine Dion in a medieval tavern, but a lonely flute or the wind in the trees can make a serious impact,) and emotions/thoughts.

4. Editing:
Always read through what you have written before you post. That way you can catch typing errors, dodgy grammar, or stunted language. You have to make it flow, so that the reader is compelled to keep going. Excessive typing errors or crippled grammar takes away from the experience. If the reader has to concentrate to understand what you are trying to say it will not be a good read, and most often they lose interest, or get petty counting typos. It is like a cd with a notch in it, the music can totally draw the listener into your world, then it starts chopping and the feeling is gone, and unless you can recapture their imagination you lose. The easiest way of doing this is to write in word or similar, run the spelling and grammar check, and fix it up before you post.
Also, when you post a chapter, it is done. You may find later that you forgot to add some things, elaborate more on a scene or similar. Very few people go back to read chapters again (unless the story is REALLY good) so give it a day or so and read your chapter again so you don’t post too soon. That is one lesson that I keep skipping myself, of course, but when I have a lot of people asking for more I tend to write fast and post asap to keep them happy.

All you need now is practice, and reading other people’s work can help you with ideas on how to write your own stories.

[Temari]

Don't make it to descriptive like "LOTR" books do. They go into such uncecessary details that it gets boring.

It's nice to say "The field was stained with blood of lok'thor's enemys, the night was dark, and the grass was rustling from the wild winds scarring him"

That's about right, when you into EVERYTHING it quickly loses touch!

[Tank.]

I've compiled a few phrases that might get a fellow writer out of a pickle:

"it was a worthy battle my friend, now lets all meet up in the orc great hall and exchange tales of past battles, come my good sir,"

"warriors lets not cause a hussle in the realm of our forefathers, here ye, tonight shall be a night to honor those who have passed, a toast seems to be in order my friends"

"lets not fight noble warrior, lets exchange lines from the poetry of the orc shaman lok forgrath"

Cheers mates

[Gondorff]

Don't make it to descriptive like "LOTR" books do. They go into such uncecessary details that it gets boring.

It's nice to say "The field was stained with blood of lok'thor's enemys, the night was dark, and the grass was rustling from the wild winds scarring him"

That's about right, when you into EVERYTHING it quickly loses touch!

Of course you have to remember that Tolkien's expertise was not in literary techniques etc. In fact, the book makes many "mistakes" that professional authors would not make, such as splitting the Two Towers and the Return of the King into halves for the different character groups. Overall, Tolkien's writing didn't turn out badly, especially considering the number of "mistakes" he did make.

But back to my point, Tolkien's expertise was in Linguistics and History, so obviously, to him, creating realistic cultures was very important, and thus, there is a lot of emphasis on details in LotR. Depending on what type of book you like, this can be good or bad. I happen to be the type that completely immerses myself in a subject like LotR, so the more details I find, the better (and the Silmarillion has plenty of details, I can tell you). However, I can see why such lengthy descriptions would bore many people.

Overall, I would agree with Keegan: do not use SO much descriptions (unless, that is, you think that you have a more well thought-out culture than Tolkien did, and plan on writing about all of it :p)

[DarkChrono]

The best writing tip I can give you is, don't write about Warcraft. I know it isn't what you want to hear, but you are only restraining yourself, and most likely won't get anywhere with it. Then again, it's better than not writing at all.


Edit: RE: description vs. non-description: Everyone has their own style, but it is a common beginner mistake to either describe everything, or to describe nothing at all. The trick is to describe only the things that matter. Describe the things your character will notice.

[Vaulander]

Dont write about Warcraft? Why not? If someone feels like writing about roses in a burned out garden midwinter then by all means. Most people who write write for the joy of it, not as some sort of 'job'. If people like it and ask for more, that's the best reward there is.
V.

[DarkChrono]

For two reasons:
1. You don't experience half of the writing process when you write about a pre-created world and some-times about precreated characters. You're missing out, and you're limiting yourself.

2. Believe it or not, it's not actually THAT hard to get published (moreso for short fiction). I assume that most people who write fan fiction do it because they see forums for it, and once they start writing about Warcraft they forget that they are allowed to write about other things. If you are going to write a 90 page story, you might as well make money at it.

[sCK]

Don't make it to descriptive like "LOTR" books do. They go into such uncecessary details that it gets boring.

It's nice to say "The field was stained with blood of lok'thor's enemys, the night was dark, and the grass was rustling from the wild winds scarring him"

That's about right, when you into EVERYTHING it quickly loses touch!

LOTR is a very well written book, IMO. The style is all "middle-earth", even the writing style. This isn't just new characters - this is a new world. He's immersing you in his world.

[mlandry]

For two reasons:
1. You don't experience half of the writing process when you write about a pre-created world and some-times about precreated characters. You're missing out, and you're limiting yourself.

2. Believe it or not, it's not actually THAT hard to get published (moreso for short fiction). I assume that most people who write fan fiction do it because they see forums for it, and once they start writing about Warcraft they forget that they are allowed to write about other things. If you are going to write a 90 page story, you might as well make money at it.

actually i find storys based on warcraft ALOT more interesting than most other storys... and i dont know what u mean u cant *experience the writing process* because i find otherwise...

just like you this is my opinion but shouldn't people write on what they like and not on what U like ?

[DarkChrono]

its just my advice, as a writer, to other writers. don't take it as anything more.

[Vaulander]

Agreed. And I HAVE written stories that are not based on games. But Desperate Alliance and Serpentsholm are my best, and longest.
Cheers!
V.

[lordbelh]

I like descripition in books, I like to see things, to imagine them. Long books, are my favorite. Deep books.

Tolkien rocked. He was an 'amataur' really, not an author, yet he wrote a book that so many have come to enjoy. Obviously he was onto something. He wrote a book that was belivable, its rich history, its detail, its maginificent epic battles. Tolkien made it seem as if the history was not in middle earth, but could have been anywhere, everywhere.

[Gondorff]

Tolkien rocked. He was an 'amataur' really, not an author, yet he wrote a book that so many have come to enjoy.
One thing about Tolkien though.... while he was kind of an amateur when it came to writing technique, at the same time, his experience in linguistics does give his characters a lot of depth. For example, just little things like how Pippin adresses Denethor a lot as "you" instead of "thou" like other characters... which Tolkien explains as being amusing to Denethor, because it is informal, and it also gives rise in the book to the rumor in Gondor that Pippin is a hobbit-prince himself. It's stuff like that, which although it's very subtle, and most wouldn't consciously notice, I'm sure that subconsciously it affects the reader and shows a certain depth of character.

In this way, I'm sure that copying some of Tolkien's writing styles is good... but of course not all of them. Unless you were going to be writing a really long story (like maybe V), then including so much detail could actually detract from your writing, in my opinion, because at a certain point, it stops being interesting background information and starts becoming irrelevant to the story. So, lordbelh, while you may like long books (and I do too), it is kind of hopeless to ask for something like that on a writing forum... except for V of course :D ;)

[Bread_Master]

My best writing tip would be to not make as mant spelling errors as I do =].

[chiral]

my 2 cents on writing is to not think too much about it.
start off with a general idea of what ur story will be about.
then start writing and let the story evolve on its own, take on a life of its own.
that's how i always write my stories. i don't know how it's going to end until i finish it.

[blaine.]

-The best writer that I have ever seen is Stephan King. If you ever get a chance to read his work it's great! (The Dark Tower series is the one that I'm reading right now (7 books) and it starts with the gunslinger.) He is discryptive and lets you see the whole picture on every page. If you want some good refrence material to refrence to read his books:
"I'm Little Blaine," the childs voice whispered. "The one he doesn't see. The one he forgot. The one he thinks he left behind in the rooms of ruin and the halls of the dead."
Eddie pushed the button again with a hand that had picked up an uncontroable shake. He could hear that shake in his voice. "Who? Who is the one who doens't see? Is it the bear?"
No... not the bear; not he. Shardik lay dead in the forest many miles behind them. The world had moved on since then.
He saw Susannah's lips form the words of the real answer before the voice from the intercom could speak them, and those words were as obvious as the answer to a riddle once the answer is spoken.
"Big Blaine," the unseen voice whispered. "Big Blaine is the ghost in the machine... the ghost in all the machines."

[Lemur]

I agree with what vaulander said. Have characters that change, follow the inverted checkmark plot line(usually) and just draw from your literary experience and you should be set. GL WRITERS!

[AntarcticToilet]

Those are good tips to get you started this is what I've been looking for because I just can't write a story.

[cp_manat]

LOTR is a very well written book, IMO. The style is all "middle-earth", even the writing style. This isn't just new characters - this is a new world. He's immersing you in his world.
Haha, what a noob. Go read some good fantasy that has both a realistic world and good writing. A Storm of Swords- George R.R. Martin

[talentednewb]

I actually think writing a story about warcraft would be cool. The humans are trying to fend off the raides from the savage orcs, they think they are about ready to strike, the preists are almost done with their master training, bla bla bla.

[WC_ASD]

I start writing stories with full enthusiasm but lose my interest in it after a while and just purge it~

[Abuse.Craft]

Heh yeah that typically happens to me. I have a story I started a few months back around here, might as well post it -looks- wait its on my good ocmp not this piece of shit -_-

[dvu_ovp]

V Here is a neat idea. Why don't you make an VoD and audio commentary of yourself writing the next installment of deadly alliance. Your voice is really cool (you sound JUST like count dracula!!!) and so i'm sure that you won't put anybody to sleep.

cheerz0rs

[Demongod86]

As soon as I saw Vaulander's tips, I squiremed.

DETAIL IS NECESSARY. Every last bit that you can put in is good! As long as somthing is actually HAPPENING, detail is nice. Trust me, if I'd have to choose between reading an Illidan fic with too much detail or too little, I would easily choose the former rather than the latter.

I also have a Soul Calibur 2 fic which crosses over with Illidan/Maiev, and people say it's very good, so there.

[FrozenRanger]

you think that you have a more well thought-out culture than Tolkien did, and plan on writing about all of it :p)

I'll get right on it. To the Tolkien-Mo-Biel!




God, i'm so alone. :happy:

[Allied]

dude, nobody believes you.

[echris]

hi all ok?

[Sharil]

i'm having such a hard time with the charecters and the way they react, vaulander can you give me more tips on Charecters?

and plus Cp_Mat its not storm of swords its sea of sea swords!!!!

[eXarch]

One easy way to figure out character reactions and personalities is to base each character on someone you know. To determine a character's reaction in a given situation, you think of what the real-life analog would do, or what his/her reaction would be, and then work from there.

[Sharil]

when i'm doing the charecter personality, I always change my mind, and sometimes i even get soooo mad!!!!

[Demongod86]

Charactrers: who do you want them to be? Set a model for yourself, and build it.

[RussWild]

From a character basis, it generally easy. You must know people and how they are. The trouble i'm getting into are charaters that are not real. Like how would a guy that is 2-3 thousand years old that continually studies to understand people and nature act and talk...

[Demongod86]

Russwild, with a very disattached and disinterested attitude. He has seen and heard just about everything, so it all is the same boring stuff to him. No emotion present, unless it's someone from his 2-3 thousand year old past.

[A-busive]

of course you all know nothing about writing whatsoever

[steinkalv]

good tips imo

[Muffins_Eat_Ppl]

One problem I ran into during my writing when I was just starting out was getting passionate about it, cranking out a lot of things, then handing it to someone else and it seeming incomplete...

I'd have all the facts and details of the story already in my head, and as I was fleshing it out, I left out bits and pieces of information... as in, I might refer to an event that hadn't completely culminated yet, and expect people to know what it meant. When really, the reader has no preexisting knowledge of the storyline, and you need to make sure you have someone else read it to you, because when you hear it vocally, it separates it from how it is in your mind, which is always more glorious and complete than it is to a stranger who, unlike you, has not been working on the story for weeks, months, or maybe even years.

And don't use run-on sentences, like the last one in my second paragraph there. That's definitely bad karma.

[Vaulander]

In truth, the best way, and easiest way to become a writer is to hunger for it, to want to write. Just start typing up, and technique and style will come with practice. It is always good to have someone read it and comment, but without the will to write it doesn't matter if you take 6 years of college writing classes. Hell, I started writing when I was 12-13, and if I still had some of my first works I would probably laugh my ass off, but through the years I learned and grew to what I am now.
V.

[LoneWolf_bltz]

V is teh gosu! Now go write your next chapter!!

[PoWeR]

I feel that when developing characters, you must know them in your sleep. If you cannot recite every detail about this character, personality wise as well as physically, you do not have a fully developed character. Dialogue is also essential to allowing the reader to see who this character really is. Indirect characterization allows for suspense, and at the same time revealing, bit by bit, who this character is.

Values and morals also are of great importance, values and morals influence the way a character acts and thus allowing you to think less about the characters future actions and simply let the character "think" for itself. I don't know if i've been very clear.

[Raithed]

In truth, the best way, and easiest way to become a writer is to hunger for it, to want to write.
agreed! if you have the urge to write, then you will be a very good writer. however, you dont have to be a reader, who LOVES to read, to become good writers. for me, ive read very little -- although reading do enhance your writing techniques -- but love to write.

Hell, I started writing when I was 12-13,
i think many started at the age of 11. where creativity is still wild, on the loose.

my advice is; if you have time, write a little. certainly you will lose interested in that story the next time you read. evaluate both works, past and now. youd see the difference... we enhance our skills!

[Zakarum]

Characters play a big roll on the stories, but i think that a well arranged "backstage" will guide u on.

[Jubeebee]

This is something I wrote for someone trying to break into professional writing. With the writing contest going on, I think it is appropriate.


You must be able to separate yourself from your writing. If you take offense to criticism, or reject negative comments as people "not getting it," you'll have a hard time improving as a writer. Keep in mind that people do not owe you or your work either their time or their money. The hardest part of your job as a writer is to convince people to read your work from start to finish, despite this.

Once you can convince a stranger to pick up and read your book or story without any prompting, you've won most of the battle. The most fundamental way to do this is to write for your audience. Know your readership. Know, most of all, what your readers hope to get out of your book. A story loaded with ten-dollar words and allusions to Shakespeare may score high marks with an English professor, but a less captive audience—like a bookstore browser— may discard it because it’s too challenging to read after an eight-hour workday. Keep it accessible. People laugh, and fire extinguishers are red; they don't chortle, and they aren't sanguine.

Reference Materials for Writers:
A blind man cannot paint, and someone who doesn’t read cannot write. Everything that’s been written in your genre or about your topic or in your language is reference material to you. Read everything. But if you're pressed for time, these books are a good place to start.

Elements of Style, by William Strunk and E.B. White
This little book will improve your writing more than most college-level English courses. Buy, don't borrow, a copy.

On Writing, by Stephan King
The second half of this book is crammed with King's own tips. Like him or not, he's sold more novels than any other contemporary writer. If you're looking to get published, he's the guy to listen to.

Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary
The cheap paperback dictionaries never have any of the words you'd need to look up anyway.


Finally, some clips to consider:
Unless you have a diary like Anne Frank's, no one wants to read it.

A sex or action scene isn't a story onto itself.

Dialogue and action drive stories. Scenery and introspection have their place, but the core of your story should be people doing things for a reason.

Real life doesn't always make sense, but fiction must always make sense. Even if "it actually happened to me," your readers won't believe in miracles.

Show, don't tell.

Your readers aren't idiots. At the same time, never assume they know the characters and topics as well as you do.

Subtlety is almost always better than brute force. If your readers wanted to be beaten over the head with morals, lessons, etc., they'd smack themselves with a Bible.

[UnLikE]

A blind man cannot paint
False! :happy:
Everything that’s been written in your genre or about your topic or in your language is reference material to you. Read everything. But if you're pressed for time, these books are a good place to start.
I know nothing about the theory of writing, but what happens if you write without reading?
I've always had this thought because whatever you wrote would be, surely, from your own mind. Sometimes I wish some writers didn't read Lord of the Rings because of the whole elves/orcs/dragons stuff, even tough I realized many of those elements are Norse mythology.
Who was that painter who wished to paint like a child, again?

[Jubeebee]

I know nothing about the theory of writing, but what happens if you write without reading?
You would have no frame of reference for anything. You wouldn't know if your writing was worth a damn because you haven't read good writing or bad.

You wouldn't know if your characters were cliched or if your style died with James F. Cooper. You wouldn't know what style was, for that matter. You would be entirely unfamiliar with storytelling convention.

You wouldn't know how to pace your writing or develop your characters. You wouldn't know how to describe a scene. You wouldn't know the rules of grammar, and if you did, you wouldn't know how to break them.

I could go on. When you're writing for yourself or for your friends, these things don't matter because your audience will enjoy your work for the virtue of it being your work.

But trying to reach a wider audience-- one that doesn't owe you their time or attention or money-- without reading is like trying to pass a calculus class without knowing your times tables. You'd be incapable of even understanding the concepts needed to succeed because you don't have to tools to relate. You'd be making macaroni ornaments in a fine art shop and not even realize you're surrounded by crystal and spun glass.


"A blind man cannot paint"
False!
This intrigues me. Your argument is logically sound, but I'd like more detail. How do you suppose someone who has never seen colors can use them?

The analogy stands.


I've always had this thought because whatever you wrote would be, surely, from your own mind.
Perhaps. But literary convention exists for a reason. Breaking it without knowing why-- or worse, without being aware of it-- will make you look foolish.

An author in the 1960s wrote a book that was printed unbound. It came with an instruction sheet which told the reader to shuffle the pages together and read them in whichever order they fell. He was trying to represent the chaos of the time.

Sound familiar? No? Know why? Because no one wants to read that shit. So you only hear about it in period literature courses as an example of a phenomenally stupid idea for a novel. The convention of bound pages exists for a reason.

Who was that painter who wished to paint like a child, again?
"This is something I wrote for someone trying to break into professional writing."

[Slander]

On Writing, by Stephan King
The second half of this book is crammed with King's own tips. Like him or not, he's sold more novels than any other contemporary writer. If you're looking to get published, he's the guy to listen to.

Really good book.

[UnLikE]

"This is something I wrote for someone trying to break into professional writing."
Of course. Sorry for making lame questions, but thanks for answering them.

And the painter was a really famous professional. Just something interesting to think about that doesn't equal profit or "quality".

[RedMeansDead]

A good way to keep your interest in a project is to have a good understanding of the beginning and end. Once you know those things you merely need to fill in the middle; developing your characters and planning your scenes is easy when you know where they are going.

How do you do this? Ask yourself what the conflict of the story is. When the conflict begins, that's the beginning of the story. Give your reader enough info to understand the situation and then introduce the conflict. Sometimes you can do both of those at the same time. If you begin too far ahead of the conflict then people will wonder "What's the point? Where is this going?" If you end too far after the settlement of the conflict you will seem to be droning on.

How much detail to use is almost completely subjective to the effect you want to achieve. The less detail you give, the more the readers will fill in for themselves. This causes them to personalize the story, which can be good or bad.

You don't need to tell everyone that a character has hair, but if you want the reader to react to red hair or blonde hair then you have to describe it. And of course if there is something unusual, like a completely bald character, you should describe it. Any detail that matters (not interesting, but matters) needs to be described. Any detail that is interesting can be added in your narration. Don't stick it into dialogue or action! Details draw attention to themselves and will distract from other important things (and themselves). Think of a reader's attention as a resource and remember that you can't use too much of it at once.

All that being said, a reader needs a certain amount of detail to understand what is going on. If you don't give enough then your story will become formless and impossible to follow. If you give too many details then the reader will be bogged down and bored. At some point every reader wants to know "What is going to happen next?", even the most patient and interested ones.

I am a detail minimalist personally; I only give the details that help my reader understand the important ideas of the story. Anything that can affect the story goes in, anything that won't stays out. Why does it matter that John is wearing a purple coat? Because purple coats are culturally or religiously significant in my story? Because I want my reader to react to a man wearing the color purple? Because I want my reader to react to the character's sense of style? Even if the answer is not in the story but in the reader you should know why you are including a detail.

I love Ivanhoe, but honestly those first pages are torture. :(

[.78 Chance]

I dunno why, but this has stuck in my head for many years, and I say it to myself often when I'm re-reading my compositions::

"They say it's been said
There's so much to be read
That no one could fit
All those words in their head

And so the writer who breeds
More words than he needs
Is making a chore
For the reader who reads

And so my belief is
The briefer the brief is
The greater the sigh
The readers relief is."

[RedMeansDead]

I dunno why, but this has stuck in my head for many years, and I say it to myself often when I'm re-reading my compositions::

"They say it's been said
There's so much to be read
That no one could fit
All those words in their head

And so the writer who breeds
More words than he needs
Is making a chore
For the reader who reads

And so my belief is
The briefer the brief is
The greater the sigh
The readers relief is."

Very true. I read stories for entertainment and to be exposed to new ideas, not to listen to someone praise themselves for being...

...verbose? :P

[tehscourge]

2 things that might have been mentioned, as i didn't read the topic:

write what you know. you have something to say. don't say what other people want to.

write for yourself. while its true that you need to impress publishers if you want to go that route, writing something that means a lot to you will impact what you write in the future. It will give you more confidence and pride with your work. I'm a believer that there should be a solid chunk of you behind everything you put on paper, or in 1s and 0s.