TINKER GUIDE, by Da.Murdoc

[DaMurdoc]

TINKER GUIDE by Da.Murdoc

The things that u alwais do:
-Go Night Elf
-Buy boots of speed
-Buy Invis potion
-Buy staff of teleportation
-Buy potion of invulnerability
-Form a wall with your buldings like this replay(http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=2969 )
Other map then turtle.(http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=2828 )
-Creepjack your ennemy by using your invis potion, dont forget to steal his items while your invis (if you take a item you wont be revealed)
-With tinker you can power creep, alwais go Shop/upgrade/shop/upgrade/shop/Robogoblin/upgrade/rocket/rocket/rocket
use the shops to power creep, dont forget this.
-Dont forget to upgrade the range of ur archers with the tier2 upgrade.
-Dont harass at lvl 1-2 alwais start harassing at level 3.

VS NIGHT ELF I go hyppogryph riders
-Never forget to focus fire on dryad, talon first
-If he goes mass archers to counter ur air, use the tinker to nuke the archers with the shop.
-Use ur godlike micro and save mana for your moonwells so your tinker will be very hard to kill
-Harass alot

Replay (http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=2828)

VS ORC I go hyppogryph riders
-Hide ur ancients of wind so he doesnt know you are going to use airs
-If he see your going air, harass him hard with your hyppogryph riders by focusing fire on burrow.
-Harass alot
Replay (http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=2969)

VS UNDEAD Vs fiend -MGs,dryads,archers. Vs gargs -Hyppogryphs riders
-If hes gargs try to creepjack him with standard hyppogryph and try to kill as much gargoyles as possible.
-If fiends you have to use staff of preservation to save your mgs and never forget to upgrade the armor of the mgs
-Its better to steal items because you cant really harass with all those towers.
-Use potion of invul because we all know UD kill heroes fast

Replay vs fiend (http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=2855) Replay vs gargs (http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=2838)

VS HUMAN Chimaeras
-Micro your chimaeras alot because the human will try to focus fire them.
-Upgrade chimaeras attack
-Upgrade archers attack because archers are very strong vs riflemans (since hes going to kill ur chimaeras your archers and shop will damage the riflemans)
-If he goes Hawk, use your archers to focus fire on hawk. If he goes flying machine do the same thing.
-Harass alot.

Replay (http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=2697)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I posted a replay under the description of my strats~!
That's it, tank you for reading.

[PerfectDARK]

kinda n00bish, chims vs human lol unless u playing vs a total n000b

[DarknessCalls]

uh huh chims.... what if he gets hawks

[Nafaltar]

Before he gets Chims he has mass Archers, so its not quite so likely that the HU will go for air based anti-air. This strat is IMHO the equivalent to the Orc Towers to Bats with BM harrass.
Although IMHO this strat is more vulnerable early game (before building wall is finished).

Nafaltar

[DaMurdoc]

uh huh chims.... what if he gets hawks

That is why you have to micro and focus fire on the hawks, and with the harass, the human cant fast expo or barely creep.This strat worked vs total pros by the way because when they see tinker, they underestimate you and go rifle,casters,mk,archmage (original hmM?).

Sec, im going to get a replay of me vs a good Human player

EDIT: Here (http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=2129) This replay was on my old account but it pretty much describe how devastating my strategy is. I never lost to a human while using tinker on my level 23 aka.

[DaMurdoc]

Before he gets Chims he has mass Archers, so its not quite so likely that the HU will go for air based anti-air. This strat is IMHO the equivalent to the Orc Towers to Bats with BM harrass.
Although IMHO this strat is more vulnerable early game (before building wall is finished).

Nafaltar

Before saying that, whatch my replays.

[Techno_boy]

Great! I love to see the Tinker in action. To bad i dont play as NE, but as UD. So still no idea how to involve the Tinker in a strat for UD :(

[64Mhz]

Woot. Finally the tinker guide. I'm gonna start playing NE now! Gogogo abuse. :p:

[thegame]

A warden would still do much better than the tinker.. if you give her invisibility potions and steal items like that. You can also use SS on a high level creep once its about to die by the hands of your enemy. This way, you get the experience and you can steal the item, use invulnerability potion and run away.

[HellraiseR]

Before he gets Chims he has mass Archers, so its not quite so likely that the HU will go for air based anti-air. This strat is IMHO the equivalent to the Orc Towers to Bats with BM harrass.
Although IMHO this strat is more vulnerable early game (before building wall is finished).

Nafaltar
Agree with Nafaltar

about the points usage at the beggining, i would get cluster rockets at lvl2 or 4 against night elves, i mean, it can do some nice damage if he has archers + dotts and so on

[Nafaltar]

Before saying that, whatch my replays.

I have seen some of your replays and obsed one of your games. And I stick to what I said above.

Nafaltar

[DaMurdoc]

I have seen some of your replays and obsed one of your games. And I stick to what I said above.

Nafaltar

than ur an idiot.

Okay guys. how much time a level 6 warden live vs a level 6 dk and lich.
i say 2 second.
Warden = low HP and harass like shit compared to tinker
TInker move godly fast and harass like god.

http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3031

I kicked lnclnerator with it, if thats not enought.

[Nafaltar]

You might be right about me beeing an idiot but what exactly is wrong with what i said? Your building wall is finished at the 3 or 4 minute mark, if its finished acloser to the 4 minute mark a UD rush could hurt you bad. While it is basically impossible to cause trouble to a turteling Orc at that time. After your buildingwall is finished (im aware that often this will be the case before the ennemy can even run his hero to you). I wasnt saying that your more vulnerable than the "standard" NE build I was just drawing a rough equivalent to another strat since both are based on harrass to Air -> harrass with base setup to prevent early game rush.

Nafaltar

[Home_bizzle]

unlike these other guys i love your tinker strat i use it tons esp on humans ^^ which seem to be the easiest

[DaMurdoc]

You might be right about me beeing an idiot but what exactly is wrong with what i said? Your building wall is finished at the 3 or 4 minute mark, if its finished acloser to the 4 minute mark a UD rush could hurt you bad. While it is basically impossible to cause trouble to a turteling Orc at that time. After your buildingwall is finished (im aware that often this will be the case before the ennemy can even run his hero to you). I wasnt saying that your more vulnerable than the "standard" NE build I was just drawing a rough equivalent to another strat since both are based on harrass to Air -> harrass with base setup to prevent early game rush.

Nafaltar

Archers own ghouls when u micro archers thats why i alwais top the 120 apm every game i micro.
Is that enought for you, alot of UD rushed me dude i know what im talking about when i made this guide so stop.

[Nafaltar]

Archers own ghouls when u micro archers thats why i alwais top the 120 apm every game i micro.
Is that enought for you, alot of UD rushed me dude i know what im talking about when i made this guide so stop.

K, I´m just going to shut up. Even though I feel you didnt really understand what I was getting at.

Nafaltar

[StrykerD]

Archers own ghouls when u micro archers thats why i alwais top the 120 apm every game i micro.
Is that enought for you, alot of UD rushed me dude i know what im talking about when i made this guide so stop.


But if you cant micro good enough yet ghouls rip archers to shreds..

remember, not everyone has good micro.

[DaMurdoc]

hehe! well to be good at the game u need both, micro and strategy. too bad micro guides doesnt exist.

[CyRaN]

u caught me off gaurd with the tinker, cuoldnt use hero nuking against ur tinker in that form, doesnt matter much as ud is by far my worst race

[DaMurdoc]

u caught me off gaurd with the tinker, cuoldnt use hero nuking against ur tinker in that form, doesnt matter much as ud is by far my worst race

well thats part of the strategy bud! catch you off guard!

[Demongod86]

Heh, Murdoc, thanks for the guide, though I really need the base structure above all else because I think that a DH harass can be just as effective, although in different ways, and also, tinker isn't my style. But your strategies can be applied to any harassment hero, warden, demon hunter, tinker, or if you can harass with a pitlord, do so too =P

[DaMurdoc]

nobody harass as good as the tinker.
and tinker is really hard to kill
and you want his level 6.
thats enought to take the tinker.

[ILL FATE]

Tyson Crew Ownz!!!

These Replays Are Great Thanks For Posting These For Us.

[Demongod86]

Murdoc, does your build let ghouls through? Because every time I tried to use it, it leaked a LOT of ghouls, and so, I got killed. What do you say to this? Does it let ghouls through so you have to be prepared or does it block them?

[HelpMeI'mNew]

lololol, speaking of tinker, I was just messing around with him on my junk account and massed nothing but archers + 1 mg and a tinker. I didn't really micro at all past the extent of focus firing.

http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3095

[DaMurdoc]

Murdoc, does your build let ghouls through? Because every time I tried to use it, it leaked a LOT of ghouls, and so, I got killed. What do you say to this? Does it let ghouls through so you have to be prepared or does it block them?

if 1 ghoul pass its no big deal you have to heal the archer with moonwells and try to focus fire one by one the ghouls.

[Temari]

worst strategy guide ever .-~;;

i rate this 1/10 kukumaku ~~;

[Nafaltar]

worst strategy guide ever .-~;;

i rate this 1/10 kukumaku ~~;

... in what way is this the worst strategy guide ever? This strategy works really well and isnt all that hard to pull off. Also he has attached good showcase example replays that help with the specifics. It also posessess a degree of structurement. Its held simple and to the point without straying from its destination.
Id give it 8/10 and 9/10 for the strat itself.

Nafaltar

[Demongod86]

No, I mean that ALL the ghouls pass. And then they gg my DH. I need a base structure that will allow only 1 stream of ghouls to pass at which point my DH thxes them all...but if 10 leak thru, my DH gets thxed. It's for use with Cygnus's NE v UD strat, which if pulled off, is instant gg because it guarantees meta, chims, etc and soforth.

[DaMurdoc]

look at my replays its not enought to show u how to build ur base?
and btw tinker make a much better job :)

Guyz dont listen to k33gan, even if this guide was the best guide of all time he would say it sux cuz he dont like me :d

[Demongod86]

Murdoc, I tried it...it LOOKED good in that my DH couldn't get out, meaning his hero couldn't get in, but his GHOUSL could...and that's the problem.

[Zero_Soul]

Ghouls eat archers for breakfast, and occasionally as a mid day snack. You can really micro your archers unless you can, in a single second, micro the 5 archers that are all about to die in a single instant. Ghouls+UD AOE vs. archers...you might as well put grunts up against frost wyrms. IMO.

[DaMurdoc]

Ghouls eat archers for breakfast, and occasionally as a mid day snack. You can really micro your archers unless you can, in a single second, micro the 5 archers that are all about to die in a single instant. Ghouls+UD AOE vs. archers...you might as well put grunts up against frost wyrms. IMO.

U r very stupid if u think 5 archers die vs 5 ghouls come to clan wcr and 1v1 me.come try to rush me with ghouls you dork!!

Annnyyywayy!!! (sorry for the BM but im really getting mad, if ur new to this game plzz oh plzz dont comment on strategy guides.)

hmm

demon! try this http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3032
At the end of the replay i use my archers and shadowmelt them to make a invisible wall, try this trick to help close ur base.

at the end of the replay u can see

[DaMurdoc]

http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3158
http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3153

http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3119 (http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3119)
More replays!!!

[septa]

Murdoc, maybe include some hints on what to do when the strat starts falling apart, this may help people who want to try it but are worried they wont pull it off as well as you.
eg. include a replay of you losing and say what you could've done differently to win

[Demongod86]

I can see it coming apart if Tinker is faerie fired, or if the base is simply sieged down. Also, an orc can beat this with common sense. What would an NE harass to get to? Lore tech? Riiight...

Wind tech? I THINK SO. Raiders and bats, here we go!

As for NE: when I never saw this strategy before, I get pretty beat up by it. Hide your wisps, and also, use a murdoc base build! This guy has an awesome build, and you can alter it to have one choke point at your base so you can run in and seal it off with a DH or so... But if you know to expect hippo riders, you mass riderless hippos and smash the air force right out of the sky. And the ultimate of DH or Warden is far better than robo-goblin.

Vs. Humans: put a staff of tp on your MK. Also, research magic sentry. It is 100/100 but well worth it if you see your opponent with a blademaster or a tinker, in this case. To know that they are trying to go for your peasant lines and stopping them in your tracks is something well worth it. Bolt the tinker when he tries to staff out, slow when he tries to run. If he burns a TP, he lost more than you did. Go attack.

Vs. UD: see above, except with crypt lord...you might also consider shades. Yes, this is farfetched, but is it worth it to stop that tinker from wreaking havoc on your base? You decide. After that, his air force is in no way supported, and your heroes are also unchallenged by his. Sure, you can't nuke the tinker, but he can't do half as much to you in battle as a demon hunter or warden of equal level.

Or in general: as cygnus put it: stay calm. Don't panic.

ANother one of the reasons that this strategy is so deadly is that nobody knows what it is or how to deal with it. It's like a rogue deck in magic the gathering. If that rogue deck is properly constructed to annihilate cookie cutter decks, it will do just that. And why? Because nobody expects it, hence does not sideboard for it. And here, nobody has come up with a viable counter to this strategy, and therefore will succumb to it. Every time I have pulled off Cygnus's strategy in his NE v UD commentary, the UD just lost completely because they're all expecting hunt/dott/archer/dryad/etcetera, so when I smash face with a level 7 DH, hippos, and chimera, they go completely nuts because their nuke is suddenly obsolete, their ghouls are a liability, and their gargs are suddenly built directly against. So they try to adjust to fiends...and by that time, you have your air force rolling and your DH unleashing demonic fury on their entire army.

Though I gotta give credit to murdoc for making this completely original strategy. And with it, he DESERVES to win as much as he does. In fact, it's good to see all those orcs get their asses completely OWNED when a tinker starts tinkering on their peons and burrows. It just makes my day.

[Demongod86]

But then again, it WOULD be nice for murdoc to tell us how to counter this strategy himself...I feel as though I'm on the RIGHT track, but I dunno how close exactly. Murdoc, some assistance here?

[DaMurdoc]

wellll i praticly never loose.. but then again i can try to invent some counter

If your ne: do that same thing as me, but try to have better micro, simple enought?

If your ud: use tri hero, tower up ur base and mass gargs really hard and try creep alot to use ur tri hero

if your hu: archmage + master caster and mass rifles, tri to polymorph the chimz (if a human try to do that to me i use wisp to detonate BTW)

If your orc: .... eee.... no idea... bats arent a real couter it just waist ur money ... but i dont know how to beat my strat with orc.

This may work, but my strat is just too strong to be beated.
and BTW tinker own DH :)

[Nafaltar]

There will almost never be the need for the Tinker to burn a TP cause you have that Potion of Invulnerability on you: use Potion->use Staff 100% secure TP for single hero.

As for beeing able to do this with other heroes: yes it is possible but im pretty sure that you will be nowhere near as effective because: a) only few heroes can power creep as good as the Tinker, b) only very few heroes can harrass so effectively even late game with out there beeing much of a counter, c) if you dont focus down the Factory fast enough it will by itself own any grounf based AntiAir, d) lvl6 gives mechanical = gg nukes, e) only few heroes will be equally underestimated.

Nafaltar

[DaMurdoc]

Me vs Demongod86
Dh and warden vs tinker.. who win!!??
http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3192
http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3193

[Demongod86]

And another thing: Tinker pwns DH for out of combat, but not for in-combat. The problem is that Murdoc's tinker strategy revolves on avoiding all combat, so the DH's great combat merits don't play a huge part...though I hafta admit...that Pocket Factory should not be able to be so chucked, like behind their enire base architecture...IMBA factory chuck...poor orcs, they get raped by this.

[replays_rawr]

this is very similar to cyberllama's strat..
o.o

but its a good strat ^^

[hyou-ko]

Interesting strategy...watched a couple of replays...MK should bolt when you pop staff and dont have a TP on you...

Another thing i saw was that if you get creep-jacked succesfully, tables might turn...A bit risky...

However, i must give you props, for this strat is a creative one, at the very least...

[Zoltan]

i always Pictures Tinker with The Horde, becuz of air+Rockets.

But Chims but hu? all hu mass Rifles and Sorcs.

Polymorph+FF=Gg chims :p:

[MonkeyShens]

Very nice strategy, Ive tried it several times. Works great and is very fun:) Works best on Turtle rock map. I have to give you props also, very creative

[64Mhz]

WOw this really works...I had my doubts but it wasn't that hard to pull off...well I was up against a newbie or more or less but whatever.

http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3220

TY murdoc for enlightening me on the art of tinker.
*bows before the_murdoc* :p:

[Allied]

looking at the replays of this, it seems to me the only ppl who fall for it are lower skilled ppl.
i personally its not that good an idea at all.

[Demongod86]

Allied, it's just that nobody really has faced a tinker before so them being thrown off is part of the game. After the fact that people will get used to tinker and then find the proper counter for this BS strat, the tinker will not be so great anymore. But until then, try playing against this strat and THEN diss it. I've tried, and lost. I am embarassed, yes, but there's no saying I can beat it, when I can't.

[Legend[eWc]]

Murdoc, in one of your games against a human on DA.MURDOC you lost vs eG)iTaChi who used human. What units did he use to counter your strat? (Just want to know how you lost incase I know how to counter it..) Or was it because of a few errors on your part?

[DaMurdoc]

']Murdoc, in one of your games against a human on DA.MURDOC you lost vs eG)iTaChi who used human. What units did he use to counter your strat? (Just want to know how you lost incase I know how to counter it..) Or was it because of a few errors on your part?

He used a good counter but!! i needed to rush later
he won by using master caster inner fire rifles full upgrade.
but i didnt upgrade my chimaeras so he won, simple enought.
it was a gg i did a good harassement but his priest did a good job.

[Legend[eWc]]

Thx for reply, by the way I was thinking about the using the warden instead of the tinker 1st against undead because warden is a good harasser early game and she can still be good in the early game if ud rushes if u can micro her well. Since it is harder to harass with tinker in this matchup and since warden can creepjack just as well as tinker if u give her invis pot she seems a better hero to use first. and her lvl 3 fok with blink is easier to kill acolytes and ghouls then with the pocket factory because of towers etc, and her lvl 3 fok is great against ghoul/garg. the best reason to use tinker late game is because of his roboform, but I am not sure if it is worth it, since you can counter nuke to some extent with invincibility and healing potions on warden.

I am suggesting this because I find ud is a harder race to effectively use this strategy against and warden might end up being a better choice if you read the previous ideas I wrote. I would continue the normal strategy though, with the base blockage and unit combination. What do u think about warden?

[Nafaltar]

looking at the replays of this, it seems to me the only ppl who fall for it are lower skilled ppl.
i personally its not that good an idea at all.

Actually its really hard to go against a locked base with Archers in the back (regardless of the hero involved but the Tinker is better at solo harrasment then most heroes). Also for some counters you need to counter at minute 1. When you will not necessarily know wether your opponent is going for the Tinker or not.
Obviously a lot is also micro by DA.MURDOC a less skilled player couldnt pull it off so savely but it is a strat that does work quite well. But micro is an issue for any NE strat. And it can turn out to be of less importance with this strat when your opponent crumbles to the Tinker harras.

Nafaltar

[Sharil]

Orcs are the best with tinker, because they have excellent body gaurds. With them you can create meat shields for the tinker.

[foxstoneeety]

Orcs are the best with tinker, because they have excellent body gaurds. With them you can create meat shields for the tinker.
... the tinker is in a way a meat-shield, he can be healed by workers, takes a lot of damage and his factory will create unstoppable numbers of other meatshields... orcs wont need the tinker cuz in general he dont have great abilities except creating a meatshield for weak armies such as ne archers of hu rifle/casters

[Demongod86]

Legend, it really is a matter of tastes. However, against orcs, I would probably prefer the tinker since nobody can keep orcs in their base better. However, if you like to go for the warden's ninja abilities to use in your harassment, by all means go ahead. As for myself, I like to drop a Cygnus on every UD I play, which is essentially what murdoc does with a tinker but differently. A tinker won't stop a DK from creeping so effectively as a DH will. When a DK is without mana for coil and a DH is always on him waiting for the right opportunity to kill a creep, item jack, etc, the creeping will go a lot slower. Ditto with warden but she can't burn off coils, although she can kill gh00z =]. Anyway, against UD, just mass up hippo riders and then thx their mine and acos. If that doesn't merit the instant GG, the follow up 6 chimeras and 10 hippogriphs, and your choice of meta or avatar of vengeance to the UD's 8 gargs and 6 ghouls (due to a broken economy) most certainly WILL. I use tinker against orcs if I'm feeling inconfident in my micromanagement, because although the gruntapult is supposed to counter mass hunts, if you can pressure the orc with DH/hunts by killing burrows, killing grunts, etc., while not losing any or little huntresses, you will set back an orc a great deal and after that, you just take your group of DH and a considerable amount of huntresses, run right past the grunts, and try to surround his hero. His hero, if he is smart, will move back. Make it look like you're CHASING the hero, but then double back and surround the demos.

Mass hunts vs. orcs CAN be done provided that

A) There is a good amount of room for maneuverability
B) Your micro is good
C) You play smart

No matter how good your micro and room for maneuverability are, you're gonna do far less if you don't know how to hit the orc where it hurts. Grunts are irrelevant. Just make their heroes fidget and then smash demolishers. It's what I did against CRT3k. yesterday in d-bos's cast.

Final hero tallies:
Me: Demon Hunter, level 6
Him: Far seer: level 3 Tauren chieftain: level 1

My hero kills: 3
His hero kills: 0

Of course, a pair of boots and a flute of accuracy found off of the goblin shop creeps (this was on twisted meadows) were also involved. Ah yes, 1.14 DH. Now if only there was an item to buy so that you can get a 1.00 DH...

[DaMurdoc]

Dont talk to allied too he hate me to because peaple love me and everyone hate him witch is pretty funny.
Warden vs ud... okay if u like to hear your warden scream of dead after eating 1 coil and 1 nova, and warden cant power creep so your pretty much screwed.

[DaMurdoc]

http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3217
http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3225

[64Mhz]

K murdoc how exactly do you harass with a tinker?

[DaMurdoc]

K murdoc how exactly do you harass with a tinker?

Watch my replays.. god i posted thousands of replay if u dont watch them just shut up .. god lolll

[Andy Wilson]

TInker ownz i've been using him lately I haven't lostyet i'll post some replays later

[skyro620]

I've never seen any other race use tinker effectively other than NE. But I've actually seen this before (I forgot where, but some top player used tinker in a very similar way except no chims as he went MG + archers instead) and indeed tinker is a great harasser especially once he gets his ultimate.

I'm a hu player but I would think (theorycraft) AM + Panda + rifles + mortors + hawks would beat this pretty easy. Blizz + bof/dh + mortors would kill the archers so fast they wouldn't be able to kill your hawks. Mortor flare will allow you to see invis units and check out what you're building (in this case chims) to make the appropriate counter. That is curious though how you lost to master priests + rifles, I'm guessing you didn't have enough chims or something. I would like to see that replay if you still have it.

I watched the replays vs hu some of them just really didn't know how to handle harassment at all (i.e. one time I saw a hu player waste a scroll of regen for his army when he could've used it to heal his army + peasants). I would probably build 2 arcanes the moment I saw my opponent had tinker, and I think most people should know if the NE is relying strictly on pure hero harass for the majority of the game he's most likely going chims (or mass bears). Also this strat seems to work best when spawned on opposite ends of turtle rock because if you spawn on the same side a tower rush will be hard to stop. Also I'm guessing you're young because all your games (and some posts) are BM hehe. I laughed when you called the invis mortor dude an abuser.

[Nafaltar]

I believe Tinker could also work for HU vs Orc. Stall them until you have Rifle/Priests/Sorcs and things will be on your side. Also the Pocketfactory can cause some damage to those Demolishers.

Nafaltar

[CynicalDoc]

Ok, I removed a few posts from this thread dealing with "where the strat originated" to be honest, I don't care, just keep the discussion to the strategy. Thanks.

[Crysknife]

Some other units you might want to throw in are those goblin mercenary units that have the "kaboom" ability. I got 2 of these merc units, sent them into an orc base, and blew them up in their peon line next to a burrow. It killed 4 peons and destroyed the burrow :-)

[Nafaltar]

Some other units you might want to throw in are those goblin mercenary units that have the "kaboom" ability. I got 2 of these merc units, sent them into an orc base, and blew them up in their peon line next to a burrow. It killed 4 peons and destroyed the burrow :-)

And you payed 530 Gold and 200 lumber to kill ~480 gold and ~190 wood taking into account the time needed to send new Peons to Gold and reproduce peons for lumber. Yes you got the XP and it is worth it but if he had Burrowed and killed one of your Goblin Sappers he would have lost a single Burrow and that would have been all.

Better to use them on Burrow Clusters, MW walls, Townhalls in combination with an attack etc..

Nafaltar

[IC.Shadow]

Ok, I removed a few posts from this thread dealing with "where the strat originated" to be honest, I don't care, just keep the discussion to the strategy. Thanks.
I'd already removed 12 others. Thanks.

This thread will be closed if the fighting/off-topic crap keeps up. It's not hard to keep the thread on-topic. :|

[DaMurdoc]

Its okay dont close teh thread slow shadow :)

[DaMurdoc]

If u wanna laugh

http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3330

[Meru]

Tinker's not to be underestimated... I've seen Da.Murdoc play and that pocket factory harass is sick. SICK I SAY!

I missed his match vs lnclnerator due to general pissiness on both sides (no observers), but I have seen him beat level 30 humans with chimaeras

[Zoltan]

Tinker's not to be underestimated... I've seen Da.Murdoc play and that pocket factory harass is sick. SICK I SAY!

I missed his match vs lnclnerator due to general pissiness on both sides (no observers), but I have seen him beat level 30 humans with chimaeras

Rofl! level 30 Random team! Theres no way a Human can be that dumb especially if hes level 30 solo.

and if it is team, then he's just a stupid noob.

all team players are mostly noobs. they were level 10 b4 the patch and now they just skyrocket...

And Tinker is a INT hero that is MELLE. Its G_G tinker all the way

[Meru]

level 30 solo kthx. you can see Da.Murdoc in the channel "Clan GGL" most everyone in there is Solo (with the exception of your few newbie RT and FFA players, as you so eloquently put it)

And before you continue flaming him, did you even bother watching the vs HU replays he put up? what about going onto azeroth and checking their stats?

[DaMurdoc]

Well i hang out in Clan WCR most of the time

[Yankeesfan188]

thAts Awsome murdoc love the tinker =d

[bladedruid]

Its a good guide but it requires a high skill level to carry out

[Meru]

you don't exactly have to be gosu... but a little bit of good micro would be good if you like keeping your hero alive.

[slayer]

soz to bump an old thread but are there any 1.16 reps of this? I somehow missed it before the patch and it sounds pretty interesting.

[dcp]

Before he gets Chims he has mass Archers, so its not quite so likely that the HU will go for air based anti-air. This strat is IMHO the equivalent to the Orc Towers to Bats with BM harrass.
Although IMHO this strat is more vulnerable early game (before building wall is finished).

Nafaltar

If you're playing a good HU player you will lose from harass, just getting archers wont take out the footmen, especially with defend.

[d-bos]

Hrm, well despite this thread being up for a long time I never really noticed it. I would like to bring to your attention that Da.Murdoc is a very skilled player. He conquers many players that are regarded quite highly in the Warcraft community, and as always many people will be skeptical of a strategy that is unlike mainstream play. Just because he doesn't mass huntresses or anything generic like that, does not mean he doesn't know what he is doing. I have observed countless games of his, and can attest to the fact that he has plenty of skill and has beaten some exceptional players on my cast.

To say this strat can only work at a low level of play is wrong for two major reasons...
Firstly, this strat does not work well at a low level of play because as you can see from the replays, Murdoc times his harassment, attacks, and creeping patterns with deadly precision if you can not do this well, you will likely fail. He often uses some very innovative techniques for keeping his base safe and his units and hero alive (good micro).

Secondly, I think the strong point of this strategy is that you keep your opponent helpless to the air that they can not possibly expect from a Dual AoW archer build at the start, which is the trap a more advanced player will fall into that perhaps a beginner would not (beginner might just assume he needs a reasonable amount of anti-air without seeing any signs of it coming).

This makes them look like noobs, which oftentimes they are not. Even people that challenge Murdoc in the WCR channel knowing what he will do often fail to stop it. I would recommend this strategy to someone who is fairly familiar with the game and quite skilled (lvl10+ old AMM at the very least) and I would recommend that it be tested thoroughly against all races, and perhaps substituted into the matchup you are least comfortable with. For example, if you are a night elf player who always loses to gruntapult, try playing this strategy for a while and see if you can use this as your counter to the generic orc strategy.

[Wren]

I'm with D and Murdoc... the psyc-out game is the best game =) and timing is unbeliveable!

Do you have any 1.16 replays? It's worth reinstallings to see these if not, but if you do that would be great!

[MonkeyShens]

i love this tactic, in fact ive been using it a lot and it is quite fun :) Yes, 1.16 replays of this would be awesome, keep up the good work Murdoc

[Merlyn]

You know, the ONLY reason I would use the Tinker is for the pure joy of seeing a midgit with a big claw bitch-slappin people around. What could be better.

I tried the strat out, and it works, but it's REALLY hard.

Replays, please!

[Legend[eWc]]

If you want to switch back to see reps of murdoc's tinker i made a way to switch back to every version, email me daniel_gaal@hotmail.com if you want to know how

[DaMurdoc]

New replays soon mates

EDIT:
TINKER REPLAYS!!!
http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=4357
http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=4359

[slayer]

Yay for the tinker, watching those reps right now! Will get back to u with my feedback.

Edit: The only problem with this strat that i can find is if ur opponent scouts u then it can be very hard to win. For example if the human player saw that u were massing archers and then teching to chims then he most likely would've used a footmen defend rush and owned u. If the NE player saw u getting hippo riders he would've massed archers. So scouting > this strat. btw rofl at the DH who killed the clockwreck goblim and died from it's aoe on death damage :p:

[DaMurdoc]

I post alot of replays on member 1v1 section so stay tuned

[AC(2099)]

The only thing I do with the Tinker is get Rockets and that bonus and never the shop unless thtas the only thing left and I keep it with my Rifles and have boots and mabe staff and always a orb if I can get it and the results turn good.

[DaMurdoc]

Yay for the tinker, watching those reps right now! Will get back to u with my feedback.

Edit: The only problem with this strat that i can find is if ur opponent scouts u then it can be very hard to win. For example if the human player saw that u were massing archers and then teching to chims then he most likely would've used a footmen defend rush and owned u. If the NE player saw u getting hippo riders he would've massed archers. So scouting > this strat. btw rofl at the DH who killed the clockwreck goblim and died from it's aoe on death damage :p:
Lol.. ur funny... u dont know how many humans tryed to footman rush me
In clan wcr tons of people tryed to counter my strat, no one survived.
One guy can with an army of footman on defend + a bloodmage to make a hole in the trees to pass trough my wall, i still won this game by owning all his footmans with my tinker.

[BuSHyFr0]

Nice guide man... I watched some replays and i was really impressed. Nice work. :p

[AxeWind]

i wanna try to take on your tinker i have the visualized in my head

[Merlyn]

GG in the replays, although your oponents wern't the best at the world. Interesting, I might try it out against my brother...hehe :P

[PITagoRAS]

in my last game i lost to a noobelf using this tinker strat =p
i think that murdoc/mr cignus/cecil strats is making a lot of problems.If they still creating that strats, soon the elfs will own all races =(.So plz, stop making strats and show your replays guys, coz soon ne will be the imba race with this advanced strats =D

[Nafaltar]

Lol.. ur funny... u dont know how many humans tryed to footman rush me
In clan wcr tons of people tryed to counter my strat, no one survived.
One guy can with an army of footman on defend + a bloodmage to make a hole in the trees to pass trough my wall, i still won this game by owning all his footmans with my tinker.

However that was more thanks to serious outmicroing me than to superior units ;).

But I can easily say that massing defend Footies without doing a risky fastcreep like I did and using a non BM is almost calling for rape. AM might work with Blizzards great range.

Nafaltar

[Wren]

sweet! thanks for the updated replays! I've been using a hybrid of your strat w/ Cygnus... works like a champ!

[DaMurdoc]

However that was more thanks to serious outmicroing me than to superior units ;).

But I can easily say that massing defend Footies without doing a risky fastcreep like I did and using a non BM is almost calling for rape. AM might work with Blizzards great range.

Nafaltar
I cant believe you still think you can counter it with footmans... lol...

[Nafaltar]

Actually I believe I was pretty close to beating you that time even though I had way inferior micro. Since as you might have noticed I didnt make a large enough hole for my BM to get into your base on my second attack, running him arround mindlessly for 30 secs and wasting another Flamestrik on the wood to then have to wait for cooldown...and once that was up the fight was already over and I had to TP.... And one Flamestrike at lvl2 kills Archers. I believe you learned that vs your clan mate AKM.

Nafaltar

[DaMurdoc]

http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=4435
http://wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=4447

[halfcig]

tinker with fiends seriously rock human, anyone whos has tried it knows

[DaMurdoc]

TINKER audio commentary
http://wcreplays.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15884

[Merlyn]

Thxs, your the best!

[Th0r]

ive been playing with the tinker a bit and after reading your strat im gonna try a few things different. thanks for the replays and audio, ill check them out when i get home.

[Merlyn]

How did you fling the factory over the trees, that was really cool.

[mr.babycakes]

than ur an idiot.

Okay guys. how much time a level 6 warden live vs a level 6 dk and lich.
i say 2 second.
Warden = low HP and harass like shit compared to tinker
TInker move godly fast and harass like god.

http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=3031

I kicked lnclnerator with it, if thats not enought.
LOL, ok tinker no moves faster than warden..if u have boots u have to have boots on both...and if u have 1 lvl 6 warden...vs 2 lvl 6 heros...shouldnt u be a noob, cuz u get exp much faster.... neways if u wanna get a warden vs ud u might not want to if there is not shop where u can buy maybe a periapt of vitality or a invincible potion...
i will watch that replay though....it will be funyn as hell

[Merlyn]

That replay (and bump) was from 2 patches ago, make sure you got Zei...

[Demongod86]

Actually the fact that staff of TP cancels out lesser invul now has nerfed murdy's strat quite badly. You should now use a pot of invis to get out.

[Merlyn]

Oh and by the way to babycakes, Tinker does move faster than the Warden. It's one of his skills.

[IC.Shadow]

OK, while this may still be a valid strategy, this thread and all of the replays within are months old, so please do not bump threads like that.