First Audio - HU Mirror LT

[Stig_rename]

www.stig3d.com/private/stig-audio01.zip

64AMD.Cara vs 4K^ToD

I think my voice sux :(

[NethioX]

oh my god, search the human strategy forum and find my thread.. this is exactly what I've been waiting for. It's a little late, so ill hear it tomorrow. anyways, thanx dude you rock

[Dakonblackblade]

Cant wait to get my hands on this baby

[PancakeAbuse]

Woot. Looking forward to watching it, my friend =D.

[Stig_rename]

oh my god, search the human strategy forum and find my thread.. this is exactly what I've been waiting for. It's a little late, so ill hear it tomorrow. anyways, thanx dude you rock


Link me and I'll have a look.

I can give some very good advice on human if you need it.

[KoGs]

As I said to other ppl. If you are gonna do an audio commentary, plz do one on yourself.

[Stig_rename]

Theres no rules on audio commentaries.

This was a particularly interesting replay which I knew I could comment a lot on and would be of use to people.

Although I'm a pretty desent player, level 40 solo, my games aren't going to be on the same level as the likes of ToD or Cara, so by talking about what they are doing and why they are winning is going to be much more useful usually.

I will do some of my own if people think this one was any good. I can probably do some nice 2v2 audio's since I have a strong 2v2 team with my AT partner now.

[DrZaP84]

Nj man, only critcism Id see is that you said "eh" way too much. Like sometimes you said it twice in a sentence. But yea, nj, I mean its your first audio, and I def. think you have potential to be a good audio commentator. Try not to say "eh" though lol anyways, nice job and i look forward to your next one.

Misclick of gg...X/

[la_L]

Eh was a little much, but I'll excuse it cause I love the British accent/any real accent from anywhere in the world. It just makes things lively. A good upbeat voice helps too.



I just want to say, in general for all the great audio commentators-

Try to(when doing own replays) do different from the "I was thinking" to the more shoutcasting type situation. Just my opinion. Not sure if people can/will do it.
Otherwise great job ACers.

[Stig_rename]

OK, thanks for the advice :) I agree with you too, I'll try to work on that for the next one.

[NethioX]

Ok stig, There ya go. here's the link , I uploaded some of my loses to back up my big problem on this matchup in this map. Please, If you see anything I do Terribly wrong, PM me or Just post here.

http://www.wcreplays.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38221

Thanks in advance,

NethioX

[Stig_rename]

Ok, I just watched the one against "MyKittenIsBest"

You actually played quite nicely.

I'll just go over a few little mistakes to touch up on first, since all the small things do add up.

Firstly, when you militia creeped for your FE, you attacked the ogre first. Usually it's best to take out the trolls, then the ogre then the troll priest and then you only need to summon one WE where as you summoned two, wasting mana. Also, the trolls drop the items so it's good to killl them asap to get the items.

Secondly, when you went to his base to attack you kept attacking his shop, which he just repaired whilst killing your footmen.

It was good that one you weren''t able to FE you went straight to tech and then after tech you went to expand again.

Pretty much the only thing that cost you the game was not putting a 2nd or maybe even 3rd workshop up.

When you were at his base you should have spotted him putting up those Aviary's which suggests he's going mass air, so what you want to do when you see that is stick up 2 and possibly 3 workshops very quickly, fast build if you need to and pump gryros. You did get gryos, their just werent enough. You also made some gryphs which was pretty pointless since he had no ground units apart from his heroes but you needed to be much more concerned with taking out his mass air army at that stage, especially since he can just arial shackle your gryphs.

So thats pretty much it really, as I said you played quite well up to the point where you didn't counter his mass air well enough.

I'll have a look at the other replay a little later and post here again.

[Stig_rename]

OK, on the second one, you lost again because of his air, although it wasn't mass air, he did end up with quite a few gryphans and since you had mostly knights and pretty much no anti air you lost again. You did get up two workshops, which was good, but just didn't make use of them fast enoough. If you'd waited a little longer for a few siege tanks you might have been ok but you lost most your army and heroes in one go because you weren't able to counter his air. You never want to go into a fight you are clearly out matched in even if it means losing an expo.

There are quite a few choices to be made for human mirror on LT when you FE, whether or not to go dual sanctum or dual workshop or dual aviary, or dual barracks.

With dual santum at tier2, you can make a good push on the enemy, especially if he's gone single sanctum.

With dual barracks obviously you are able to pump knights quite well which are useful in some situations but not always. I wouldn't advise going rifle in HU mirror since they can be easily AOE'd or focused with knights and won't be of a great use.

What I would have done that game was to have stuck up an aviary, you should always get one, once you saw him making air, start making hawks, once you'd seen him making a lot of air, start pumping out some gryros as well and if he's switched to totally mass air, then pump out some siege tanks.

Usually when I play HU mirror on LT, I will always get one of each building type at least, so barracks, workshop, arcane sanctum, aviary, so at least you are prepared in some way for any unit he might produce, then as said, if he's massing a particulary type of unit, you might want to fast build another one of your buildings in order to counter it quickly, and since your opponent maybe relying on massing that particular type of unit, once you counter it, you've pretty much won.

The final bits of general advice is if you're fast expanding, make sure you do it as quick as possible, creep it fast and get it up quickly, this means good use of resources so you have enough wood and gold ready to expand with.

Also, if your enemy has got their expo up, the best option is usually just to go and expand a second time yourself to counter his, rather than attacking it.

You only really want to attack his expansion when it's being built, taking out the peasants building it or if he makes no towers, you can send a couple of footmen down to attack peasants whilst maybe goig with your main army to attack peasants at his main. If you're not doing that, you really want to be creeping and leveling up your hero(es).

There is so much depth in this matchup though, so I can't cover everything in this post but if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[NethioX]

.


.

The final bits of general advice is if you're fast expanding, make sure you do it as quick as possible, creep it fast and get it up quickly, this means good use of resources so you have enough wood and gold ready to expand with.

Also, if your enemy has got their expo up, the best option is usually just to go and expand a second time yourself to counter his, rather than attacking it.

You only really want to attack his expansion when it's being built, taking out the peasants building it or if he makes no towers, you can send a couple of footmen down to attack peasants whilst maybe goig with your main army to attack peasants at his main. If you're not doing that, you really want to be creeping and leveling up your hero(es).

There is so much depth in this matchup though, so I can't cover everything in this post but if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

well, do you have any tips on how to get my expansion faster? (ie lumber collected before i militia, how many peasants to do while the actual creeping, when should i get lumber mill? )

thanks in advance,

and thanks again for helping me out

NethioX

[Stig_rename]

I've noticed different gosus have slightly different orders, some go for early lumbermill, some don't etc. Some will scout with an early peasant some won't

I personallly, always scout against human with an early peasant, the one from my alter and I would advise doing that to find out obviously where he is and also if he's fast expanding or not.

My BO and FE method goes like this:

1 to alter (shift to militita, to scout map)
4 to mine
1st peasant out to barracks (shift to wood)
2nd out to close base farm (shift to mine)
3rd out to farm on ramp (shift to wood)

rest out to wood.

3rd farm when i've got enough wood and gold after 2nd footmen being trained and however many peasants it is at that stage which gives me even food count.

mage and 2nd footman come out pretty much same time and i'll milita 4 peasants just before they come out so everything gets to the creeps about the same time.

send militia to one troll, shift to second troll, shift to ogre

send footman to other troll, running mage in ahead of both to summon WE just by ogre so all creeps attack WE.

with that you only need to summon 1 WE and you won't take much if any dammage from creeps if you do it right.

In terms of building thats another choice to be made.

You can just go straight into building town hall and just wiat until it's up.
You can go straight into townhall, then have one making a tower which will become arcane, then as you do that you could begin making a lumbermill and then once first tower is up make a second but upgrade that to normal tower.

Alternatively what a lot are doing lately is to fast build a tower first and upgrade to arcane then make your town hall.

Sometimes you don't need guard towers against another human player, sometimes you do, like if your not in combat with them.


For me personally though, lately I've been avoiding the fast expand. I still fast creep to get items and experience then if my opponent is fast expanding I'll harass him as much as I see is to my advantage and his disadvantage and maybe try to stop his FE or at least slow it down.

Then if he gets up expansion, since I'll be ahead on tech, I'll get my MK out quickly and some casters, maybe dual sanctum and then push on him hard at tier2 whilst expanding myself.

I've chosen not to FE since it makes you very suseptable to harass, specially against a good player, and like I would do, your opponent could get up an expansion after tech anyway and you can't prevent it since they have the tier2 advantage.

hope that helps


If I play a HU mirror on LT soon, I'll save an upload it if you like.

Only replay of HU mirror I have at the moment of me is on turtle rock against some level 44 HU.

[NethioX]

thanks. Got that down about Fast Expanding, but theoretically if I see Gryphon Aviaries (lets say two) so all I should do is fastbuild another workshop and mass up gryo? its gets owned by Innerfired Gryphons and Hawks real bad. Anyway thanks for helping me out ^^

[Stig_rename]

if he's got mass gryphs as well as mass hawks then go siege tanks, if he's just got hawks and only a few gryphan then go gyros and focus fire the gryphs first then the hawks won't be able to do enough dammage to your gyros if you have enough and they'll just rip through his hawks.

[NethioX]

thanks, played A game now, Hum mirror on LT and won. Decided to go fast expand, was crossmap. I got to his expansion and harassed it badly :D. Was kinda fun, then got teir 3 gryphons knights tri hero which owned :D

[Conso]

You sounded a bit nervous but the information was great.

Good audio man.

[Stig_rename]

Thanks conso.

[fromdownyonder]

i liked the audio a ton, i really learned a lot from it. do another one plz, i think you're very informative. keep it up man

[Myoda]

very good. if it wasnt for all the "ehm" between each word this would have been just grreeeaaat! very good. :)

[Stig_rename]

Cheers guys :)

I'll try to do another one soon and make sure I have less "ehm's" ;)

A little busy at the moment with real life and also in wc3 I'm busy sorting myself out with new clan and stuff with my AT partner.


Any preferences to what Audio you'd like next and whether it's of myself or more Gosus?

[thegame]

If you make an audio on one of your own games, just make sure your opponent isnt a newb, otherwise its all good :)

[Stig_rename]

Yeah of course :)

I wouldn't do a boring one either.

I just beat a level 40 NE on an account I'm just starting to work on in solo. It was a good game, so I might do a replay on that.


If anyone has any requests, then post here. Also say if you prefer gosu replay or my own replay.

I'm roughly about level 45 solo. I was 40 on my previous account but stopped solo for a while and I'd say my ELL should be a little higher now too.

I'm also a serious AT player but only with my one AT partner who plays orc, so if anyone wants some HU-ORC 2v2 audios, I can do them also on request.

[minicoocoo]

Stig , what would be the best thing to do when u find out from scouting (late barrack) that ur opponent is going to harrass with Blizzard in Hu mirror?
usually i put up an arcane tower but that slows down my tech to T2 so is there a better way?

thx

[minicoocoo]

also from watching many korean Hu mirror, it seems massing SB and priest @ T2 is the more popular strategy. in what situations would u tech to T3 instead of T2 dual sanctum...

[Kheez69]

Great audio! Hope there are more to come!

[Stig_rename]

Stig , what would be the best thing to do when u find out from scouting (late barrack) that ur opponent is going to harrass with Blizzard in Hu mirror?
usually i put up an arcane tower but that slows down my tech to T2 so is there a better way?

thx

I always put up an acrane tower anyway, it doesn't slow down your tech that much.

Sometimes from blizz harass, I might stick up a second arcane tower if he can avoid my other one some how.

Once you've prevented the harass, just keep creeping since he won't be able to creep as effectively as you.

[Stig_rename]

also from watching many korean Hu mirror, it seems massing SB and priest @ T2 is the more popular strategy. in what situations would u tech to T3 instead of T2 dual sanctum...

I do the same, certainly on tavern maps anyway with firelord second.

On a none tavern map like llost temple or 2rivers, you can sometimes go single sanctum and tech, then make knights against his breakers and mortar with fragmentation against his casters and get a paladin to heal MK and a staff on sanctuary to save heroes and knights.

On a tavern map it's quite hard to say, it all depends how the game is going. A lot of the time you are better off staying tier2, if your oppoent goes tier3, you can make sorcs since he'll have less gold to spend on breakers so he can;t counter the slow so well which makes knights pretty useless, since you can just focus them and also your breakers will rip through his priests. If he makes mortar, try to slow them and pick them off too.

Also, when massing casters at tier2, you are strongest at that tage of the game, so if he decides to tech, you can put up an expansion and he shouldn't be able to do much about it since you should have a stronger army.

Is that the sort of help you were looking for?

[thegame]

I'm roughly about level 45 solo. I was 40 on my previous account but stopped solo for a while and I'd say my ELL should be a little higher now too.

Hell then i certainly dont mind if you do an audio on one of your own games.. lvl45 is almost gosu =P

[minicoocoo]

Is that the sort of help you were looking for?
Yeah thats really great...it really clears up things for me ...guess the rest is left to micro....

cheers

[Ildfuggern]

A really good audio dude! And a human vs ne would be great :D

[NethioX]

yea, it seems that LT is more of a NE map than a human one... Since they start mass expanding and getting bears/dryad, just add a tavern and its the ultimate NE map.

[Palas]

I finally got around to watching/listening, it was a great audio, thanks for the insight.

[Stig_rename]

yea, it seems that LT is more of a NE map than a human one... Since they start mass expanding and getting bears/dryad, just add a tavern and its the ultimate NE map.

The advantage for human is that they can creep their expansion immediately with militia and because of fast build with multiple peasants as well, this enables them to get up their expansion much sooner than any other race can, including NE.

NE also require to make units through out the time they are expanding which puts them into low upkeep so not making as much use as the dual mines (only 7 gold x2 at a time) whilst a human can afford to tech and make fewer units, whilst just sticking up a few towers which enables them to mass a nice amount of gold with 2 mines at 10 goldx2 a time. This means they can then quickly go stright to tier3 and rapidly pump out tier2 units from dual tier2 buildings and also expand again if they decide to.

[thegame]

Finally listened to the audio, it's amazing man.. keep making more of them!

[Kage]

Starting out as human, so prolly you could do an audio about the strengths and weaknesses of the race and a little bit about timing, when is the right time to hit, when is good to creep, how placements of buildings matter, what and how many units to get at timesd and stuff would be really neat (if you havent already done that).
Im getting the audio and its 53 percent done, will edit on my request after this.
Cheers.

[Stig_rename]

My next audio is actually going to be for my trial to be an official WCreplays Audio Commentator. Made it past the first stage with a 1 minute audio, so now I have to do a full one.

Apparently it will be put on the site if I get the job, so I'll keep it a secret what I'll be doing for now :)

If I don't get the job I'll just post it myself :p

[minicoocoo]

gl on ur trial :) looking forward to hear more of ur ac

[Kage]

ok i listened to this audio and i have a couple of suggestions.

a) barring the ummm thing which is a tad bit annoying.. haha, the main thing i noticed is that you are unsure of what the next move made by a player is , this happens sometimes so i think its mainly because of you not watching the replay beforehand or forgetting what the move would be.. not a complaint but a suggestion.

b) Id also like to see one in which you do against NE since they are the most irritating race by far and that mass expo bear bs id like to see how to counter...

c) when is it better to get what upgrades, this game cara almost owned tod totally in teh last with knights >>>> rifles.. but i have noticed that sometimes both players stack up on armour upgrades so their units last longer in battle, what do you do generally?

d) i have noticed that human mirror goes either dual sanctums mass breakers or quick tech to t3 with knights gryphons, what do you do generally/suggest etc is the better option and when ?

e) what about small maps do you hit the human early or do you wait till you level up heros. what are generally good hero levels before engagin in a fight? (i mean not 5/5/5, but a good time to hit and what spells are better etc).

other than that a great audio, really appreciated the effort you put in to it, and gl and cheers for your next one too.

[Stig_rename]

ok i listened to this audio and i have a couple of suggestions.

a) barring the ummm thing which is a tad bit annoying.. haha, the main thing i noticed is that you are unsure of what the next move made by a player is , this happens sometimes so i think its mainly because of you not watching the replay beforehand or forgetting what the move would be.. not a complaint but a suggestion.

b) Id also like to see one in which you do against NE since they are the most irritating race by far and that mass expo bear bs id like to see how to counter...

c) when is it better to get what upgrades, this game cara almost owned tod totally in teh last with knights >>>> rifles.. but i have noticed that sometimes both players stack up on armour upgrades so their units last longer in battle, what do you do generally?

d) i have noticed that human mirror goes either dual sanctums mass breakers or quick tech to t3 with knights gryphons, what do you do generally/suggest etc is the better option and when ?

e) what about small maps do you hit the human early or do you wait till you level up heros. what are generally good hero levels before engagin in a fight? (i mean not 5/5/5, but a good time to hit and what spells are better etc).

other than that a great audio, really appreciated the effort you put in to it, and gl and cheers for your next one too.

You want me to answers those questions on here or just what I could do in next audio?

[T.M.]

Great audio dude : )

[PoWeR]

Just listened to it. The "ehms" really did take away from it, but I found you to be very informative.

[murh]

wow, really great replay, great info! And the 'eh' wasn't to bad (didn't really notice it)

btw I didn't even know that the staff cooldown goes away when you give it to your other hero, does that also work with NE staff?

[Stig_rename]

wow, really great replay, great info! And the 'eh' wasn't to bad (didn't really notice it)

btw I didn't even know that the staff cooldown goes away when you give it to your other hero, does that also work with NE staff?


yes, but they don't need to their staff is so cheap and imba cooldown anyway :P

[Spookify]

w00 british accents rock :)

[Gonzo45]

Nice audio
but the "ands" or "ums" or whatever you say really made it annoying to listen to
other than that it was good