Poll: Balance of DotA

[Lee-volution]

I was curious on what you guys all think of balance for DotA. Pick the answer that best fits your feeling, feel free to discuss.

[AvengerxZ]

I feel that DOTA is quite balanced at the moment. Every strategy that I can think of can be countered directly or just by changing your play style by being more devensive and what have you. There are some things I feel need tweaks but they are not such an issue that I would call them imbalanced.

[Lee-volution]

I think all the imbalances are what makes DotA so fun. If the game was perfectly balanced, then the game wouldn't be very fun at all. Just a slower paced hero arena.

[AvengerxZ]

I think all the imbalances are what makes DotA so fun. If the game was perfectly balanced, then the game wouldn't be very fun at all. Just a slower paced hero arena.Except 99% of hero arenas are imbalanced as all hell.

[simiwizard]

Except 99% of hero arenas are imbalanced as all hell.

QFT

[Blaster]

I think all the imbalances are what makes DotA so fun. If the game was perfectly balanced, then the game wouldn't be very fun at all. Just a slower paced hero arena.

X2.

When I need a break, I just play DoTA sometimes. It is just for the fun, mass items and kill. If the game is balanced, there will be less fun because well I probably can't kill you without teamwork.

Talking about imbalance, some items and heroes are imbalanced. Or rather, some items and heroes are useless.

[AvengerxZ]

X2.

When I need a break, I just play DoTA sometimes. It is just for the fun, mass items and kill. If the game is balanced, there will be less fun because well I probably can't kill you without teamwork.

Talking about imbalance, some items and heroes are imbalanced. Or rather, some items and heroes are useless.That's not really true. You can tip the game in your favor by just being more skilled at the game. Even though I feel the game is balanced some heroes have very distinct advantages over other heroes in certain parts of the game. For instance, you match up Venomancer against a Phantom Assassin early game. The Venomancer should be able to keep PA on the defensive extremely easily. Though later in the game, given the right circumstances, PA will absolutely destroy venomancer. This could easily be achieved by the simple purchase of a black king bar to counter shadow strike and poison nova. Now, one could go on to say that Venomancer is imbalanced early game or that BKB is imbalanced because it strongly counters Venomancers skills. Neither of these statements are true because they: 1) Rely on the fact that the players are knowledgeable in the game and 2) Can be countered themselves. For example, Venomancer can get a blink dagger to get out of the range of PA until BKB is worn off and fight another time. This is what makes DOTA balanced and fun, the fact that you always have an opportunity to win with smart decisions and hero choices.

[Grommash]

That's not really true. You can tip the game in your favor by just being more skilled at the game. Even though I feel the game is balanced some heroes have very distinct advantages over other heroes in certain parts of the game. For instance, you match up Venomancer against a Phantom Assassin early game. The Venomancer should be able to keep PA on the defensive extremely easily. Though later in the game, given the right circumstances, PA will absolutely destroy venomancer. This could easily be achieved by the simply purchase of a black king bar to counter shadow strike and poison nova. Now, one could go on to say that Venomancer is imbalanced early game or that BKB is imbalanced because it strongly counters Venomancers skills. Neither of these statements are true because they: 1) Rely on the fact that the players are knowledgeable in the game and 2) Can be countered themselves. For example, Venomancer can get a blink dagger to get out of the range of PA until BKB is worn off and fight another time. This is what makes DOTA balanced and fun, the fact that you always have an opportunity to win with smart decisions and hero choices.

so true, actually i think items makes it up for the most imbalances some heroes have in dota, its all about your items choices for sure, of course you have a LOT of items to choose from and try to counter certain heroes/setuations in dota, and thats the fun/challenging and most enjoyble part of the game i think.

[Naib_Stilgar]

some heroes seem "useless" but they're supporters. so teamwork-wise, dota is incredibly balanced but 1v1, heroes like clinkz and spiritbreaker rule heroes like engima and witch doctor.

[NEoob]

SB is so broken it's a joke.

[Deafinator]

I feel that imbalance is important to keep DotA fun

FTW.

PS, SB isn't broken.

[CombatSmurf]

Spirit-Breaker broken? Well yeah, to some extend, but ive never seen him used for anything than herokilling. He never plays a crucial part in a lineup, because his skill rely too much on chance to be really effective in cooporation with others.
Therefore, the spirit-breaker might be a good choice when fighting heroes in a pubbash, but would be an equally bad choice in a clanwar.

Other oppinions?

Futhermore i would like to point out that allmost every hero can play multiple roles, given the right player, strat or item combination.
Many people fail to see this, because they play the same 10 heroes over and over again, buying the same items over and over again, thus ending up with no variation in their play. So when they finally find someone who can beat their permabashing troll, blinking tiny or Pudge/Omni - they sit back and do nothing - except cry: "imba".
This goes for clanwars too.

PS: Some feedback to the Enigma reply i did would be nice:)

[NEoob]

Spirit-Breaker broken? Well yeah, to some extend, but ive never seen him used for anything than herokilling. He never plays a crucial part in a lineup, because his skill rely too much on chance to be really effective in cooporation with others.
Therefore, the spirit-breaker might be a good choice when fighting heroes in a pubbash, but would be an equally bad choice in a clanwar.


People underestimate the importance of hero killing. It is the best way to gain exp. and gold, while denying exp. and gold at the same time. It is faster and more efficient than farming. So, yes, SB is broken. He is sick in pub. games, and SB along with other hero killers are underused/underestimated in clan games.

[AvengerxZ]

People underestimate the importance of hero killing. It is the best way to gain exp. and gold, while denying exp. and gold at the same time. It is faster and more efficient than farming. So, yes, SB is broken. He is sick in pub. games, and SB along with other hero killers are underused/underestimated in clan games.Spirit Breaker is quite easy to counter. All you have to do is time a stun before he fades in behind you from nether strike or reaches you with charge. If you dont have a stun you can always just throw them up in the air with Eul's, that works quite nicely. I wouldn't say he's underestimated in clan matches, because really, he isn't that great of a clan oriented hero.

[Blaster]

That's not really true. You can tip the game in your favor by just being more skilled at the game. Even though I feel the game is balanced some heroes have very distinct advantages over other heroes in certain parts of the game. For instance, you match up Venomancer against a Phantom Assassin early game. The Venomancer should be able to keep PA on the defensive extremely easily. Though later in the game, given the right circumstances, PA will absolutely destroy venomancer. This could easily be achieved by the simple purchase of a black king bar to counter shadow strike and poison nova. Now, one could go on to say that Venomancer is imbalanced early game or that BKB is imbalanced because it strongly counters Venomancers skills. Neither of these statements are true because they: 1) Rely on the fact that the players are knowledgeable in the game and 2) Can be countered themselves. For example, Venomancer can get a blink dagger to get out of the range of PA until BKB is worn off and fight another time. This is what makes DOTA balanced and fun, the fact that you always have an opportunity to win with smart decisions and hero choices.

Skill is one thing, imbalance is another thing.
My definition of skill is
- Pick the right counters for right heroes.
- Know the mechanics of your hero(as in how skills can be applied in different situation)
- Know the map, keep a lookout, care for ambushes.
- Be flexible.

Therefore, what you said is true to a large extent. However there is still imbalances in the game. Some heroes can be used in every kind of situation, can kill, push and steal.

One good example is Chaos Knight. Chaos Knight has the fastest speed, has a critical and has a Blink-hit attack. There is no way a hero can run away from him. Mages without 2 stuns are completely slaughtered by Chaos Knight if they meet CK halfway. Once CK reach level 7-8, it can start hunting heroes. The counters are of course Strength heroes, but even so, there are only a few strength(and a few Agi actually) that can have a firepower that equals CK.
Most heroes in the game have no answer to CK unless 2 heroes with stuns gang up on him(which hero doesn't die when banged)?

Assuming you do not hero kill, Phantasm can be a skill for pushing besides getting out of spells that disables movement. Phantasm is really a beast at level 3.

In short, when in doubt, pick CK.

Of course, in a team game/clan match/anything else, people are more careful to these imbalance because there are 4 other teammates to give support.

[sir_icemaster]

There are few imbalances, some heoes are better in some situations. Keeper of the light is a verry good farmer, goblin doesn't prefer direct fight and bone is a pure hero killer. Though some items are really imba: buriza in comparation with MKB - buriza has 20% chance to make double dmg (that's really hot, 200 dmg for a hero results in 400 dmg crit) while MKB gives 15% attack speed and a tiny 30% chance for 90 dmg.

[mistaboots]

i agree that hero killing is the most important aspect of dota, way more than pushing. If u can gank them enough they fall behind in levels while u keep farming up and then they just cant farm to get back in it cos they die too fast. And of course the big push always happens when one team or most of a team has just died.

imo clinks is imbalanced. although ww was nerfed it is still too good as it allows a fast escape from ganks (even if they have wards he can still zip away); allows him to appear at any gank or battle in no time and start blasting damage out; allows him to return to the fountain and back to his lane in one usage. Sure hes skinny but... so much damage and the ww of gg

[Mortifer]

its said so many times, yet no one ever seems to listen...

clinkz dies like a fly in a firestorm if you got a decent disabler to take care of him...

[WtfpwnYou2]

Well of course its not perfectly balanced but every character does have a role. Take SA and Keeper of the Light. Sa is a running around killing hero. Keeper is a pushing healing and supporting hero. Now if u talking about in a fight then its just stupid sa wins but thats not the role of the keeper. Its part of the fun to me.

[SySShark]

Pretty balanced these last few versions. Only thing I really have an issue with is techies. If a techies is in the game it completly changes the game - momentum, hero choices, counters all for techies. Almost garaunteed first kill(most cases double or even tripple) in the first 5mins or less. Makes it near impossible to push and no matter how good you are if you get cought up in 1000remote mines = GG. There was an idea floating around to keep him in a 'fun' tavern; along with that bloodmage hero (i forget his name) with the insane orbs for regen and a combo ulties. I wouldn't mind that but I do not like playing as him or against him. Techies out of the game dota would be perfect.

[Ham_Sandwhich]

One good example is Chaos Knight. Chaos Knight has the fastest speed, has a critical and has a Blink-hit attack. There is no way a hero can run away from him. Mages without 2 stuns are completely slaughtered by Chaos Knight if they meet CK halfway. Once CK reach level 7-8, it can start hunting heroes. The counters are of course Strength heroes, but even so, there are only a few strength(and a few Agi actually) that can have a firepower that equals CK.
You're ignoring the most distinguishing factor of Chaos Knight in that he has such a HUGE gap with his base damage all game. Check out this chart to see what I'm talking about:

http://www.dotaportal.com/heroes.php?stat=U00A

Off the top of my head, no other hero has such huge differences in his dmg.

This means he is ridiculously dependent on his criticals. Being that it is a passive skill, it requires fast attack speed which is another factor to consider. You also gotta think about his playing style...as you mentioned he can hunt heroes at early stages. If a team is smart enough to catch on to a halfway decent CK, they'll realize that he is best in 1v1 combat as he only has ONE stun with a variable duration. This means that his overall usefulness can be negated with simple teamwork. It brings him down to a manageable pace that puts him in farming mode (something he does VERY poorly without the use of a Battlefury).

One obvious counter for him would be Medusa. Assuming both heroes meet at about lvl 7 or 8 as you mentioned, CK is only pushing 1 Illusion which is directly countered by Purge. Let's say for argument's sake, the real CK is Purged. The Medusa user already knows which to focus fire...and being that he's Purged, one can unload plenty of arrows and a level 3 or 4 Chain Lightning (depending on the build). Although it may not be enough to kill him, it is enough to allow Medusa to live to see another battle. Let's assume the second situation where the Illusion is Purged (in this case the Illusion is lost). If CK does not run back after losing his Illusion, he still needs to plow through Mana Shield AND survive the Purge/Chain combo versus a ranged hero.

In the end, I think you're overhyping CK waaay more than he should be. Even without Medusa running around, he can be contained with proper teamwork and good item selection. Similar argument with SB. SB IS NOT IMBA! Careful team strategizing and conservative play will keep the SB in check. His farming skills are just as crappy as CK and depends a great deal on killing heroes for money and slowing down their growth. If he cannot control those two factors in the game, SB is just another walking target.

Unlike standard ladder play...DOTA gives players more obvious answers to the shortcomings of their hero. Although I am not saying anything along the lines of a Silencer being able to take on a Centaur hit for hit, one's options are varied to the point where a so-called "imba" hero is not completely unstoppable.

However...when in doubt....pick Medusa. :) Seriously...try her with Battlefury (Yes I know she cannot Cleave...that's not what it's for) and Soul Booster. That chick is ridiculous.

Edit*
Also consider Enchantress' ulti. Owns all melee heroes. If she's packing a Soul Booster and some kind of disable, it's damn near impossible for CK to beat her early/mid-game without a struggle.

[lama123]

There are always those good heros like clinkz, SA, neru assassin...etc and those crappy heros like terrorblade (even tho he could pwn if u're good enf), nevermore, prophet, ancient protector (never bothered to memorize that sucky hero's name...I always call him "TREE")....soooo imba for noobs who dunno which hero to pick...and aegis is the ultimate imba item, omniknight is the ultimate team help imba hero...there was once where I got into 20-3 (score between NE and UD) situation, me being on the 3's team and 2 of my teammates left.....and we got destoryer, panda, and omniknight left over....then once my destroyer got aegis...I won't die so I bought a divine raiper and raped NE...omniknight's guardian angel was a big help before I got my aegis....aegis+divine raiper=IMBA fuk (if it's on prophet, can 1v5...keep backdooring)

[RonaldC]

Surprisingly It seems the issue of imbalance in DOTA is quite a debatable subject

[N!Jr]

The fact that Dota is imbalanced is why it is so interesting. Personally, individually, the heroes are imbalanced, but if you play in teams, it is quite balanced; i think.