gruntapault + towers ...wtf ???

[EpIc]

does anyone know how to beat orcs gruntapault + tower thing? bc imo that is the biggest cheese in beta right now and i cannot figure out how to beat it. they attack too early for me to do get any strong footing in tier 2 or 3 so chims or bears is basically not an option...and a tier 1 rush is pretty much suicide with fucking burrows. orcs are very powerful in beta and there isn't much NE can do about it since demos fucking destroy their whole army...

[kazrah]

Huntress rush with KotG for orc control can be effective.

Warden also good for targeting grunts.

And of course, teh Beastmaster.

[CraZyKoKeNo]

lol orcs have been doing that plenty in 1.14 in fact i recently lost to mrshoffman on LT--and he did that strat. basically i have no idea how to counter it. i guess good scouting and some siege weapons of your own along with perhaps hitting him on the way to ur base would be the best options. although i have yet to actually beat this strategy against a good orc..

[8oo0]

Im doing quiet fine with warden + mass tier 1 + fast expension. Just make an exe near a mine and pump hunts/archers. And then just kill the creeps when the tree of life is done. When the orc tries to tower rush u with grunts/catas u should have around 60 food and be on your way to tier 2. And thats more than enough to kill him.

[IJJusion]

wow im yet to find a NE topic that they aint bitchin about either the patch or how IMBA orc is...

all i have to say is HARASS!!

a good build placement and wisps (deto) can help fend off the blademaster and the warden stops the FS

i say go warden..whden i was orc that was my only problem vs NE the warden, if they went warden then i knew it'd be a hard game

[PowLow]

it takes awhile to get enough forces for a kotg huntress rush... you need to CONSTANTLY harass them until enough units are there then you taget burrows and SPREAD the damage and back up. basically just keep em fromt teching. your biggest problem would be a grunt rush + towers. that owns. nobody uses it because of gruntapult, but it works. 5 grunts + 5 towers + farseer + wolves.... GG

[Shelf_Life]

ya harass is a way to stop the orcs ( as an orc play it is a pain to burrow if you have to burrow they an`t getten n gold) pluse if they dont burrow you got some peons to kill ,, but harass ,,, grunts are expensive if you harass you can go keeper and ensnare what lil grunts they have then ff... most of the time if I loose to a ne,, I gould not get the ball rolling because of harrassing... but good luck agenst orc ,, oh as for towers ,,, send like 1 or 2 archers to on potrol on the edges of your base ( may be night vision upgrade )

[Abuse.Craft]

-sigh- Ne can't beat gruntapult, the best they can do is delay it and be prepare when it comes. KotG does a great job of this, merely get him first and then about 38/40 food in hunts while harrassing with KotG, add archers after that. Dual AoW. As for the tower rush, that shouldn't come as long as you harrass but if it does, uproot your ancients and fight building on building.

[kazrah]

Im doing quiet fine with warden + mass tier 1 + fast expension. Just make an exe near a mine and pump hunts/archers. And then just kill the creeps when the tree of life is done. When the orc tries to tower rush u with grunts/catas u should have around 60 food and be on your way to tier 2. And thats more than enough to kill him.
AOL fast expansion is necessary for me against orc. Harass with Warden, buy staff of tele and port in to get my experience. Harass to make sure enemy is somehwere else.

Also, Illusion is right. Wisps are relaly underused. I am starting to make them a part of my regular army. Detonate is a huge boon. Its hard to use sometimes...but a huge advantage against heroes/casters/summons.

[kazrah]

ya harass is a way to stop the orcs ( as an orc play it is a pain to burrow if you have to burrow they an`t getten n gold) pluse if they dont burrow you got some peons to kill ,, but harass ,,, grunts are expensive if you harass you can go keeper and ensnare what lil grunts they have then ff... most of the time if I loose to a ne,, I gould not get the ball rolling because of harrassing... but good luck agenst orc ,, oh as for towers ,,, send like 1 or 2 archers to on potrol on the edges of your base ( may be night vision upgrade )

Wisps are also good to mark teh map. Of all races ne should have the least trouble with tower rush. Their visibility should be best.

[EpIc]

Wisps are also good to mark teh map. Of all races ne should have the least trouble with tower rush. Their visibility should be best.

its not so much the rush...its that 4 demos own an entire NE tier 1 army behind a good meatshield of grunts and that makes getting to the building towers nearly impossible. i guess you could hit their army from the back, but, yeah thanks for the help, i think harassment is the only way to beat it. and even that is iffy

[TiGeR]

basically, kotg is too weak to be ur first hero, ur only Hope in hell is to harras him from the second ur hero comes out, never relent, only chance in hell, stop burrrows, the shop, second rax. but if he does actuaclly come with pults no chance literally 90 percent chance u lose then.

[PartisanRanger]

The Beastmaster works best in countering the orc tower rush. His summons can take down upcoming towers rather quickly while your units can attack the orc's units.

[sengs]

I jst like to ask what is the significant of that 38/40 food for the hunts--- Abuse craft ty

[EpIc]

yeah BM is awesome with the mini chim...but would you recommend quill beasts or bear vs orc? i love the bear but i see everyone using quill beasts...suggestions?

[sengs]

well it all depends when BM have archers used bear for the tank but for quilbeast u used that for air power yeah that mini chim is awesome for the cata! that's for me just like what they said do what is best for you.

[Abuse.Craft]

38/40 food is enough food for hunts (I think its about 6 hunts + hero + about 11 wisps) and then you can switch to archers -- you need both to win.

[Illidans_Spirit]

a few hunts like 6-8 for meat the mass archers and dotts and dragons if they add casters and then if u still cant win add chims the key to this strat is the dh get him to attack the fs and burn him constantly and ull wanna add dets then a kotg cos roots+ff owns grunts and the rest....scrolls well help too

[Abuse.Craft]

Illidan I agree with you except for the 'key' part of the strat -- the key is to delay his gruntapult to a point where it will cause you no problems; ie, after tier 3, when you can get chims to own everything (or so I am led to believe; typically I don't ever get that far, not to mention ne isnt my primary race)

[catfish]

"AOL fast expansion is necessary for me against orc. Harass with Warden, buy staff of tele and port in to get my experience. Harass to make sure enemy is somehwere else."

you don;t need to tp, for the exp, you get it automatically no matter were you are on the map, however you might want the items, but you can get them anytime.

[redmoon]

tech bear + dryad :P

[Abuse.Craft]

I have a question thouh... I know what AOL fast expo is, but what does AOL have to do with it? -_-

[Illidans_Spirit]

I have a question thouh... I know what AOL fast expo is, but what does AOL have to do with it? -_-

AOL ? so an aceint of lore expansion man this is an new one
ive seen TOL and AOW but AOL wtf is that after a quick tech?

[PerfectDARK]

ORC IMBA ORC RACE SHOULD BE DELETED FROM TFT abusive tower and catas = delete their ass and anyway 3 race r enough for me

[Illidans_Spirit]

ORC IMBA ORC RACE SHOULD BE DELETED FROM TFT abusive tower and catas = delete their ass and anyway 3 race r enough for me

just one question wat lvl r u?
orc rocks but ill agree their demos are a pian but all u do is rush them and they are gone dont fight grunts run around dem and attack the demos while ur archers and talon own the grunts and ur wisps own the wolfs and ull do fine and roots+ff on hero also helps

[Attacks]

i find that mass archers then fast tech then get mounted hippos. while they get headhunters, get huntresses and talons... should be pretty ez...

or

get huntresses, tech to get talons with ff to finish grunts fast... and use talons to destroy 'paults as u destroy their grunts

[Abuse.Craft]

AOL fast expansion is necessary for me against orc. Harass with Warden, buy staff of tele and port in to get my experience. Harass to make sure enemy is somehwere else.

Also, Illusion is right. Wisps are relaly underused. I am starting to make them a part of my regular army. Detonate is a huge boon. Its hard to use sometimes...but a huge advantage against heroes/casters/summons

You fast expo and get AoL... I was thinking america online, not ancient of lore lol.

[THe5thDAWN]

I prefer to use the worden and harass them early with SS. If they do gruntapult then get hunts/archers/dryads and send 3-4 hunts to attack the demos, Archers to attack the towers when they go up and the other hunts attack units. What would also help is to power creep with the Worden.

[Abuse.Craft]

I wrote this somewhere else, but applicable nonetheless:

This is what I do, and Ne v Orc is my best matchup:

BO =
4 wisps gold, 1 altar(queue back to mine after building)
Queue 3 wisps, 1st to well, 2nd, 3rd and proceeding to wood. You will need 19/20 food of wisps + hero by the time you are finished, but BEFORE you build aows.
Next, have your well wisp build a hunter's hall.
Then, at 120 wood, build 2 aows. (17/20- food -- you dont need anymore wisps)
Well comes after that and then you need 38/40 food of wisps, keeper and hunts, before you switch to archers. The hunts allow you to keep the pressure on your opponent (fast move speed) rather than letting him tech to gruntapult. Entangle peons until you get your first 2 hunts, and after that you have enough force to FF grunts and to be sure of a kill.

[ItsAbOutTimE]

It sucks even more in BETA, since you can't Warden harrass with boots... until later in game

[Allied]

tech bear + dryad :P


uhhhh... they will tower you... and demolishers will be there alot faster than bears :annoyed:

[dust-removeR]

kotg + hunt harass..entangle and kill grunts... DO NOT RUN INTO HIS BASE....just wait outside and once he comes out entangle and kill another grunt...you should tech once you have about 8-10 hunts going to archs/dh/chims/kotg/dotts(mastered) once he gets demos run off and creep some, hopefully getting to lvl 3 on your kotg...go back once your winds come up and start harassing again....keep doing this until you get tier 3 and put up your chim roosts, focus on demos with chims, cyclone his tc + grunts and with archs on whatever else is left( this strat does take micro of your archs/dotts, since usually most of your hunts will die...so be aware, dh is your only meatshield o_o

[Akujin]

does anyone know how to beat orcs gruntapault + tower thing? bc imo that is the biggest cheese in beta right now and i cannot figure out how to beat it. they attack too early for me to do get any strong footing in tier 2 or 3 so chims or bears is basically not an option...and a tier 1 rush is pretty much suicide with fucking burrows. orcs are very powerful in beta and there isn't much NE can do about it since demos fucking destroy their whole army...


Stay aggressive at beginning using entangle, hunts, and archers.

If you suspect towers, get two ballista.

If you stay aggresive enough, they wont have any grunts, and you'll win.

[aquaboy-NE]

hahahah NE vs ORC is impoosible, as soon as they have pults out u might as well eave, gg, kotg dies ina harass, by time time u have about 4-5 hunts to go attck orc had bout 7 grunts and probably a demo, i think orc should be banned from makeing demoooos

[dust-removeR]

ummmm ok...watch this rep to see how to beat gruntapult...
http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=1975

[Demongod86]

DH first+one AoW archers quick tech. Orcs don't attack before tier 2, for fear of getting utterly crushed. The key here is the critical mass of archers, which is a really high number but once you get it going, grunts, demos, TCs, wolves, FS, wyvs, and just about anything short of a massive orc army will fall flat on its face. DH first for mana burn works wonders...he can also tank far better than the warden and kotg is just terrible. The entanging grunts thing is utter BS. Grunts have 700 life before upgrading, and even if the duration of entangle does 180 damage to it, that's 520 damage your kotg needs to dish out himself. If you're with an army, things are different, but I would MUCH sooner take mana burn and a DH to make the farseer run like a sissy or even a warden for that matter. Just tell your DH to attack the FS while your archers/dotts attack the grunts. If he microes his FS away, keep your eye on your DH. All the while, grunts are taking serious pain. In low numbers, you don't want to engage, but in high numbers, he's flat out DEAD. Eventually, your goal is mass air. Chims can soak up batriders quite easily and before tier 3, all of his important buildings will be heavy armored. Take out his burrows if he's out creeping. If he comes back, run. If he stays in his base, good. Just mass up tons of archers all this while and eventually simply attack and say gg.

If the orc is teching TOO fast, meaning he is teching before his rax is completed, a single DH will destroy his entire base. Look for any buildings currently under construction and attack them. If he doesn't cancel, they fall to the DH's mighty attack. If he does cancel them, he loses resources and he will have to rebuild that building ASAP. I played a level 16 orc today (I'm level 13) and he got utterly owned because through my DH harass, he kept trying to build 2 rax while teching, tried to throw up watch towers, build burrows, etc...it all went to hell in a handbasket. Every time a burrow was started, I attacked it a few times to cancel/destroy it. Every time a watch tower started, it stopped 5 seconds later. I cancelled one barracks and when he tried putting it back up again, I cancelled it AGAIN. The result was that by the time he got to tier 2, he had 2 burrows, a level 1 seer, a level 1 shadow hunter, and 2 grunts. I on the other hand, had a DH and 8 archers. I attacked, and he said gg after trying to L shield my archers, which I just ran flat into his FS's face or the peons trying to repair the burrows. Either way, it was slaughter.

[Kemeny]

yes once u hav held them off long enough to get chims and say for melee hunts u will own as usuall as they no AA and it will rape them.

[Legend[eWc]]

Merc maps help out too beastmaster/archer/merc (priest + berzerker) will own orc early game if you harass because of the unit advantage. If you are doing this I suggest getting quillbeast then bear and not hawk because early game it will help you more. The game shouldn't last too long if you do this. Tech to tier 2 pretty early and get dott and a panda would be very nice 2nd. Chims if the game lasts that long should GG him.

[spoon-77]

DH or KOTG will do good vs orc gruntapult/towers. If your on a tavern map, Panda and BM are also good. (Panda BoF hurts towers). Also, if you want to have a good laugh, shadowmeld (if u can't just get a moonstone) you hunts a little far off from your base and wait for him to attack. Let his meat paste and "unshadowmeld" then kill gruntapults/towers.

[Dr.atkins]

orcs do attack tier 1 they do it quite often... fs one grunt harras with more grunts on the way

[Demongod86]

For all your Ne v orc problems, just see the two vengeance replays. The way he makes it look, he makes it look as though NE dominate Orcs all the time!

[Merlyn]

Well, atkins, that is considered more of a harass, i mean it's not like there going to kill you there (hopfully) unless your a noob. True, you can shadowmeld and wait, but that means your wasting time sitting around. Go creep. When he attacks your base, you can come in from behind where the demos are. If you want a moon stone, those are better for setting up ambushes.

You want to get hawk 2nd. At lvl 3, you have the answer to the gruntapult, a flying attacker that deals 40-60 dmg against grunts and demos. At lvl 5 it can deal over 100 dmg with invisibility to boot!

[night_elf]

make 2 ancients of the wind (make sure ur opponent does not see them) and pump hyppogryphs . make archers to make them hyppogryph riders. harasss

:flex:

[Evolution-]

DH for first hero works great against orc. He basically stops any kind of harass the orc is trying to pull off. Panda is also a great hero vs. orc. As for unit choice a combination of units is probably the best. I.E, archers for range, huntress for meat, dryads so units cant run away, dotts for faerie fire. A good unit combo may be the only chance you have vs orc. Also one thing to do is always bring a few wisps to every battle, they are excellent vs summons, casters, and heros.

:: EvolutioN-

[Metzelknolle]

I'm going dh + archer and few hunts ( lets say 3-4 ) to help the dh in melee. if the orc comes for towers early i start immeadiately a AP (YES, no joke ) in my base and start training a glaive thrower. when ap is rdy i root it up, walk closer to the towers until he can attack and root in ( duno if thats good english sry :) ) ,Ap has bigger range than orc tower. But if you harass him well with dh them usually don't go for TR, they wait for gruntapult. dh many archers kotg or moon 2nd
and a good harass at the begin of the game should make you fine. I tried out fast exe vs orc , but got owned most the time, so mass units is surely better ( my opinion). If a human goes for towerush i have to abuse merc :).

[Raven.Icon]

make 2 ancients of the wind (make sure ur opponent does not see them) and pump hyppogryphs . make archers to make them hyppogryph riders. harasss

:flex:

Not a good idea dude. Orc rocks Ne air

[Metzelknolle]

Yes, hipporiders aren not that good. Their damage is pretty low compared with other air units, they cost too much and loose almost to all other air units in the game if they have an equal number.

[zorbie]

vs orc i usualy start of with a demon hunter with mana burn and harras the orc as good as i can, and when i get 180 lumber i tech to tier to while still harrasing him. and when i get 60 lumber i build a anicent of war and start pumping the arcers. when i hit tier two i build a Anicent of wind and tech to tier 3 at once, then i stop harrasing and start creeping with the archers and the dh. when the anicent of wind is done, i build two dots and i uprage them to adept. when i get master taloon i build 4 more while creeping and when they all come out i attack. works every time.

[Merlyn]

That's kinda risky, you know there going to attack you with the Far Seer + Grunt, and teching before you get a unit is just asking for it. Bad Idea.