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Zakarum
01-05-2007, 09:00 AM
Interesting, i will try it, i am always up to do rifles anyway!
I think that it requires a good time to pratice... :curious:

Gametime
01-11-2007, 03:25 PM
Whats the best 1v1 rifle build now adays?

PopaSmurf
01-11-2007, 04:43 PM
2 farm tech with 3 foots. after you tech and have gotten 60 wood build your blacksmith.

MargoT
02-03-2007, 01:01 AM
Shadowmanshadow aka Vex_Marquise has a good replay in his replay pack of a smart strategy versus Orc to prevent mass wyverns and force Orc to go ground game.

Basically early rifles coupled with AM and Beastmaster with bear second, and then an addition of casters later on.

Replay is 1.20 though! Gogo Ever-craft.

Link: http://fileho.com/download/05b358801332/-Hum-Vex-Marquise-vs--Orc-emmaallstar.w3g.html

Couldn't upload it on Member replays for some reason. :<

Guler
03-03-2007, 06:20 PM
Nice guide.

shoozer
04-09-2007, 09:44 PM
I use DR/Rifles vs Hunts/Fiends when I go HU (with this build).

djkinezo
04-16-2007, 10:28 AM
good build but comes out with a late hero

DarKn3s5
04-16-2007, 08:48 PM
Imo, summons and sorcs are enough to keep orc from going wyvrens...

Joseki
04-26-2007, 11:06 AM
DR rifles is pretty much the shit when you are just smurfing in ladder. It wins suprisingly often.

WB.Schweickart
04-27-2007, 09:50 AM
Wow I like lol.

yM.Samurai
05-02-2007, 04:02 AM
lol, what about bm/rifles vs undead on tr?
would be amazing if u could pull it off right with panda 2nd and knights/copters

ILikeHumans
05-03-2007, 01:40 AM
lol, what about bm/rifles vs undead on tr?
would be amazing if u could pull it off right with panda 2nd and knights/coptersI dont think that's good if you get ghoul rushed.

Joseki
05-06-2007, 07:16 PM
Especially on side spawn, you'd get crushed T_T

findus
05-08-2007, 06:22 AM
I use this build every time now. The main issue is that you must get you timing bang on on when to put up a tower, otherwise it's Blademaster misery. I usually speed build it as the second rifleman is being trained, then upgrade it immediately, though a close spawn Orc going BM will cause trouble.

Peralisc
05-08-2007, 06:34 AM
In solo i do rifle only if i make beatmaster first , else i risk to get raped.
Blademaster isnt the only one can rape you with the rifle build. Actualy any good rusher can kill a decent number of peasents :-S and it's almost GG then.
Footies die fast , but 2 or 3 of them save the day.

Chone
05-16-2007, 11:25 PM
With this BO you have two choices, either getting one rifle and a tavern hero at around 2:20 or an AM and 2 rifles at 3:00, either way, your scout will be upgrading to arcane (or guard) at around 2:40-2:50, if its a big map, thats enough time to fend off a harass, a close spawn would suck though.

Another advantage of this build is that you get tons of wood early on allowing you to militia creep a lot without hurting your wood much OR allowing you to tower up/expo at will.

It is an effective and quite fun strategy when done right :)

pokeMe
05-17-2007, 04:06 PM
this strat is pretty good i use to mass rifle

w(oO)t
05-31-2007, 01:38 AM
I don't know why you start an altar and a farm in this strat....

My rifle build involves,

1-3- gold
4-5-wood
6-wood
7-8 gold.

The first wood peasie to return builds black smith, the rest keep cutting

9-rax
10-farm

Pull a peasie off wood for altar

11-farm

12-13 wood

MrSkillLess
06-03-2007, 10:39 PM
i'm really bad with human but im trying to get better, its a really fun race to watch and I have had some fun playing it so this will help alot. i hate having 8-10 footies almost teched and then getting raped by fast tech- mass air.

MeYsteR
06-14-2007, 07:04 AM
perfect, just what i was looking for.
thanks.

nimda
06-26-2007, 11:03 AM
hey there, ive got 1 basic question to this build (which actually worked out pretty well for me too): where is the sense in just *starting* buildings? to get a better idea of base layout or what?

shoozer
06-26-2007, 11:12 AM
Yeah, just to get the base layout. You don't have to, but it helps for future planning.

insect1
06-28-2007, 04:26 PM
nice guide... worked 3-0 today

rage_fury
07-08-2007, 06:02 AM
replay plz

brains
07-09-2007, 03:38 PM
starting the farm and altar at the beginning also gives you a better idea of what your gold/lumber situation is.

King.Cole
07-09-2007, 03:49 PM
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR FOOTMEN EVER! ... those lazy bastards drink water on the battle ... dammit i've never even seen an archer stop to drink some water - and those hos carry bows and a purse full of arrows .. i think this will become my main build order just so i never have to watch a footman pause for a glass of water on the battlefield

King.Cole
07-09-2007, 03:58 PM
i think ppl need a few foots for meat. or else i think mass ghouls or grunts or foots or hunts will ownthe rifles


this is false ... water elementals are incredible meat shields ... you just need practice with the cooldown time and stalling you opponent if oyu cant get two out in any given battle ... for some reason people just love to target that worthless water monster with turtle movement speed and enough piercing damage to make your buttcheeks sore

Chone
07-09-2007, 04:23 PM
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR FOOTMEN EVER! ... those lazy bastards drink water on the battle ... dammit i've never even seen an archer stop to drink some water - and those hos carry bows and a purse full of arrows .. i think this will become my main build order just so i never have to watch a footman pause for a glass of water on the battlefield

Yeah we should all make unit decisions based on their idle animations...:rolleyes:

BigHead
07-09-2007, 04:47 PM
^correct no more need for bears either they like to sit on their ass

DaRkLoRz
07-14-2007, 01:31 PM
Can anyone make a replay of fast build rifleman (1.21)becus i only become member recently so i never see the rifle build before.

Golaga
07-19-2007, 02:26 PM
i wanna try this

;)

thxs

d41eegzter
09-18-2007, 01:16 AM
can u plz show me a replay of this in action? ty

lightningray
09-18-2007, 01:55 AM
Um...it's self-explanatory...and why would you want to get rifles without footmen first anyway? You'll lose about a minute of creeping time.

Thunder_Warrior
09-18-2007, 05:46 AM
<333 this strategy. whenever i use it i almostly win unless i was playing against a very good player.
i train alot with IFNT_Village which i consider a really good player.

lightningray
09-19-2007, 12:53 AM
Yes but you'll lose a minute of creeping time. On top of that a bm harass can put you really behind on lumber.

J4cky
09-24-2007, 06:04 PM
Well, is this strategy viable against Elfplayers nowadays? Would be quite a relieve to test something new

a]x[Scott
10-04-2007, 02:51 PM
this is my new bible, works wonders in a AT with a good melee player

Ponen
11-10-2007, 08:57 AM
I think this would be better with altar first, so u can go haras with blizzard or creep some green camps with elemental.

Drat3r
11-11-2007, 11:45 AM
Yes but you'll lose a minute of creeping time. On top of that a bm harass can put you really behind on lumber.
You can stop a bm harass pretty easily though, you can close up your base, make an arcane (if you have enough lumber) or trap him inside your base and start militia-ing. If you start militia-ing make sure you micro your weak ones out of the base where he can't kill it because hes trapped in your base ^^. While he's wasting his time doing nothing in your base you can be harassing or creeping.

G-mix
11-19-2007, 07:52 PM
That's a very interesting strategy... complicated but I will try by starting in random 4v4 games then as I get better start in solos. Appreciate it.

~G-mix

lightningray
11-19-2007, 11:44 PM
I just played this strategy against an Orc player who liked to BM (blademaster) biatch (hero target) against heroes and I must say I am impressed, since Beastmaster doesn't go down as quickly as AM, and tier 2 push with rifles/casters against slowed melee (graiders) is certainly a very good strategy (as opposed to footmen that get harassed easily by good Orc players early on, which I find difficult to counter unfortunately). Not only that, but if they get walkers in non-ethereal form, you can punish them with Bolt + Rifle focus and they will go down quickly too. Hawk helps in anti-harassment, and rifles can be retreated quickly should he right click them.

Though we still need a coherent strategy on using this vs. UD...maybe Panda first for fe (BoF is amazing for FE purposes if you haven't tried it yet and Panda hp > AM HP). Since Night Elf uses BM/Panda with mass Dryads or Dryad/Bear late game, maybe switching from early game riflemen -> fe for more gold with some towers -> mass gyrogryphs would work too, as wood would be less of an issue since you already have so many peasants on wood at the beginning. Who knows...Human innovation is pretty hard. =/

IC.Shadow
11-20-2007, 04:53 AM
Hi,

Sorry for ditching this thread, but I never play ladder anymore and never read these forums. Since I had a PM about this, a couple of things:
I don't know why you start an altar and a farm in this strat....
Because this was created back when you could make a tight pathway to filter gold-gathering Peasants (or Peons, for Orc) by using a Farm (or Burrow) and Altar, thereby only needing 4 Peasants/Peons on gold instead of 5. This was patched a long time ago, so you need five now, regardless of race.
Yes but you'll lose a minute of creeping time. On top of that a bm harass can put you really behind on lumber.
No, you lose about 15-20 seconds on creeping, at most.

BM harass is the biggest detriment to this strategy, yes. That's why you have to build a strategic base that has as few entrances/exits as possible, and have an Arcane Tower within range of your Peasants. If the BM sits there and gets hit long enough to get below 75 mana, take one or two Peasants (as described multiple times in the early pages of this thread) and build a Farm in the opening to your base to trap the BM inside. Since you will be creeping near your base - this is imperative to this strategy until you have more than 4 Riflemen - you can walk back to base and easily kill the helpless BM, unless he burns his TP. Either way, he either loses 350 gold for TP or has to revive his hero and you gain XP. That makes up for the Peasant loss.
x[Scott']this is my new bible, works wonders in a AT with a good melee player
Yes, it is best in 2vs2 AT, but VVoLF did it in solo, so it's viable either way. Some people had troubles with it in solo, but it's an excellent 2vs2 strategy.



For anyone else, the best advice I can give is to download Ever-Craft from the Sticky thread in Member Chat and watch some of the replays posted in here from previous patches. If you can find the posts in this thread where I posted or linked to games that VVoLF played, that's probably the best.

I'll try to remember to read this thread once in a while, but I never play ladder anymore, so it's better to go off of past replays.

soolshock
11-28-2007, 01:21 AM
Well, my question is...when should i use this build or when should I just get a few footmen and then start getting some rifles half way through teching? Is it just a matter of choice, or it depends on matchup? Rifles quick vs nelf?

LiveForever
12-07-2007, 08:04 PM
This build is as useless as it is old. Nobody uses rifles in solo anymore, at least not like this. Nowadays we have a thing called massing towers, it's more fun and way more effective (HU went from worst to "best" race without so much as a patch).

I hope this clears things up for anyone thinking of using a riflebuild, only do it in RT. Do it in solo if you feel like it but expect a loss if your opponent is half of your skill or better (UD nukes, orc ensanre/focus, noobelf everything).

Baxter
12-07-2007, 08:36 PM
I have tried rifle build the last 5-6 games, here's what I've learned from my skill level with this BO.

1) it worked best for me when I played on a map that has some distance. Those pesky bm harassers come early enough and it was gg for me. Too much distance and you might find yourself fighting a well defended base. You can also do it on maps where certain cookie cutters are expected ( Lost Temple-they keep scouting your expo, when you are at 8 riflemen headed to paint his town red!) it's actually really nice against orc and sometimes ne depending on match up circumstances---never use it against human! and generally don't use it against undead because it keeps you from expanding early, and not that you can't win without an expansion it's just easier ( its like driving with out brakes, sure... you can do it...but do you really want to?)

2) I was having a hard time getting my 3rd riflemen out with my Am, I figured out what I could do to get it out at the same time-bottom line-you try it a few times, and you get better with it...but the truth is

3) it really doesn't work in a whole lot of situation, echo isles is out...versus human is out...there's more but you get the point...it's fun to try and if your confident that you have superior micro, then you can probably pull it off in most situations ( most reasonable strategies win regardless of the strategy if your kill ration is 5:1-except Night Elf Versus Tanks...I played as NE against my brother to kind of explore, and I destroyed him over and over but he just kept sending tanks from vast directions...lol in that case I think it was timing, basically I have to scout make sure I don't let him put up 4 workshops)

LiveForever
12-08-2007, 06:00 AM
Actually, a better (and easier) build than vvolf's is:

4 peasants on gold, 1 on wood.
Rally peasants to wood until you have 190. (at this point make sure your next peasant fills the goldmine)
Build smith/rax/altar/farm at the same time
add a second farm when you can.

You should get a rifle with your hero, have enough wood to get a tower at the same time (get a second one fast, anyone who scouts you will rush, go 1 guard 1 cane or 2 gurad)

You get a late hero and a late tech but this is the best riflebuild which I use in RT and in solo (if I ever use it in solo, lol).

Just remember, this means they can harass you easier, tech faster etc.

Blazing)Force
12-08-2007, 06:13 AM
or 3 to gold 2 to wood
then build 3 peasant
#1 to altard
#2 to Smith
#3 to farm
put 2 on gold
Alter peasant = scout
Farm peasant = rax
smith peasant = rax
then just follow ur normal stuff

LiveForever
12-08-2007, 06:48 AM
Why would you want two barracks?

EdwardDeMaleus
12-10-2007, 08:02 PM
No matter what you may think of using this strategy in solo, the build is an excellent for any team game. When in large quantity riflemen are effective against most things they face, and never weak; at least in the earlier stages of the game, which is saying more than some of the riskier strategies. You always know that you are going with a safe chance that will stand or fall on the edge of your micro. There is no flat out "counter," so to speak.

Before jumping to criticism, recognize that this is a solid build; try it out and you will see. Whenever I play around with human in team games, this is the first strategy that comes to mind in every case.

Edward

ArieS
12-15-2007, 04:15 AM
I never go straight rifles. Footies are just better. Later if I know ud is going to destro push me I put another rack(I have exe by that time) and start making rifles. Although this guide is so outdated.

IC.Shadow
12-17-2007, 07:01 PM
Well, my question is...when should i use this build or when should I just get a few footmen and then start getting some rifles half way through teching? Is it just a matter of choice, or it depends on matchup? Rifles quick vs nelf?
Faster Rifles are/were better vs NE because Footman suck vs DH. It was similar vs Orc. Against UD or in mirror, you could make a few Footmen and be fine.


Anyways, what the (apparently now banned) kid said above about towers being effective now is totally true. However, it's also extremely lame.

eighteenleos
12-23-2007, 10:14 PM
Thanks I.C. Shadow and others for the strats.

So the VVolf rifle build strat posted in the very beginning is still set for 1.21 frozen throne?
(Also it took a hell of a long time to read all these posts, especially the ones not about rifle builds)

Also, are the only good base setups "traps"?

IC.Shadow
12-24-2007, 02:00 AM
So the VVolf rifle build strat posted in the very beginning is still set for 1.21 frozen throne?
(Also it took a hell of a long time to read all these posts, especially the ones not about rifle builds)

Also, are the only good base setups "traps"?
1) Yes, minus the whole only using four Peasants on gold thing. You used to only need 4 Peasants/Peons mining Gold if you made a tight path (with Altar and Farm/Burrow) between your Hall and the Gold Mine, but they changed it so you have to use five. As a result, you don't need to do the "start building, but don't complete it right away" thing, either. Everything else still applies, and you can use the partial-build-and-finish-later tactic, but it's not required like it used to be.

2) Pretty much, yeah. If the enemy hero that is harassing you cannot escape, it either dies (you get experience) or the player is forced to waste 350 gold teleporting out.

Richi3G
12-31-2007, 12:12 AM
I love go straight rifles, but the point is with this strat. Wont u get ur first hero a lot later? and u r pretty weak against hero harass @ early stage?

Waldow
01-08-2008, 07:28 AM
Thx for sharing. I'm gonna try this in team games as soon as possible, not gonna risk it in solo though.

jaMpa.
02-19-2008, 07:09 AM
tbh there are a LOT of ways to vary this build. I've seen sky under a 2v2 smurf get a n arcane tower up on tr. I've seen another game of him doing the same thing solo. I think it is a viable strat solo on somewhat bigger maps, because the scout won't get in that fast. But if you do it well, you units +hero will be out in time if they decide to rush right away (even without a tower u'll do fine. Experiment with it some. It's a lot of fun to use something different for a change.

btw. with 4 peasants on gold, just manual mine them. problem solved -_- unless you're too nubie of course.

Copywrote
02-27-2008, 11:10 AM
I find rifles more interesting and alot better to creep with since the high rate of fire, i also use tavern heroes to make-up for the alter (actually it works perfectly as the timing is just right on a certain map.... i dont even know the name lol), but I am still trying to perfect it as i can't seem to get my third rifle out at night fall lol.

FearOfTheFlesh
02-27-2008, 11:15 AM
If rifles get buffed then maybe, but till then I still prefer the standard hu play style because I find it more effective don't you?

Davey
03-06-2008, 11:31 AM
i like, very nice in 2v2

Strength
03-15-2008, 05:34 PM
I like it too, in 2s and sometimes to surprise in solo.


Question: Would it be bad if you built an arcane somewhere in the mix? Just to make the harass a bit easier on you? I haven't tried yet but it could work?

branchie
03-18-2008, 08:24 PM
Can someone someone tell me the rifle build for an altar hero with rifles?

ilovehuman
03-30-2008, 03:02 PM
nj really helpful

ilovehuman
04-07-2008, 04:59 PM
very nice job

a]x[Scott
04-22-2008, 09:09 PM
anytime i play human and i need to go ranged this is the strat i do.... its similar to my fiend build :D

IdSayBARELY
06-03-2008, 06:21 AM
Yeah, it's good. Though there's not a lot of times you need to go rifles, hehe. But it's swell for team games with say an orc ally or something to that effect.

Demon_Devil
06-11-2008, 03:15 PM
Is this updated to the Frozen Throne...cuz you say once you have 100 lumber, get a Blacksmith. But a Blacksmith costs 60 lumber...so...? I'm just wondering.

goshawk
06-11-2008, 03:29 PM
Once you reach it, it's just the time of it so the rax comes soon after.

Demon_Devil
06-11-2008, 04:26 PM
So this would work for Frozen Throne regardless?

BunnyKnight
10-19-2008, 09:41 AM
So this would work for Frozen Throne regardless?

Yep sure works. I tried it.

Wilkeh
03-16-2009, 10:54 PM
is this build for 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4s? or can it be used for 1v1s? and if so, how can it be used effectively?

Im0wnzed
03-17-2009, 01:46 AM
Not a good strat for 1v1s, but if you need rifles quickly in team games it works. I would generally reserve it for 3v3 or 4v4 though because you normally will need to have a few foots to creep or harass at the start in 2v2.

WidesDisco
03-25-2009, 07:06 AM
Okay, I just compared VVolf's rifle build with mine (above). Both with 3 farms and 3 rifles.

VVolf's: (10 on lumber)

First rifle: 2:30
Second rifle: 2:55
Third rifle: 3:20
Hero: 3:02
Gold at 3 mins: 300
Wood at 3 mins: 70


Ownsyou: (12 on lumber)

First rifle: 2:30
Second rifle: 2:55
Third rifle: 3:20
Hero: 3:14
Gold at 3 mins: 390
Wood at 3 mins: 120


So in conclusion, I get 2 more workers, 90 more gold and 50 more wood but get my hero 12 seconds later. Hope it helps =)

I thought this was FAST rifle build :)

My rifles (and Hero) come out much faster (Echo Isles):

02.01 1. Rifleman
02.03 Hero
02.27 2. Rifleman

DeadFaith
03-26-2009, 09:40 PM
This is excellent. 6-1 with this strat on 2v2 AT so far.

iamrogue
07-11-2009, 08:36 AM
It's since 2004, what do you expect? Obviously there has been developed a better rifle build.

MargoT
07-17-2009, 02:12 AM
It's since 2004, what do you expect? Obviously there has been developed a better rifle build.

Rifles first has never really been a viable strategy :< It's been tried many, many times.

Gloop
07-17-2009, 07:15 AM
It's good for team games, I guess it could be used against mass hunts nelf... but not really, too risky because rifles suck against everything but unarmored units.

RightfullyMine
08-08-2009, 03:57 AM
Would this riflemen build change in the current patch or is everything still applicable? Also why start a building but not finish? Couldn't I start later and then have him finish? Four peasants on gold also seems risky...

BlasiuS
09-16-2009, 03:03 PM
It's since 2004, what do you expect? Obviously there has been developed a better rifle build.

If that's true, this thread should no longer be stickied.

ShiningAngel
09-16-2009, 03:51 PM
vvolf's rifle build is the fastest way to get rifles still. there is no build order thats faster altho rifles arnt used its good alternative to cookie cutting

cardhu
09-16-2009, 07:05 PM
not to be discouraging, but going pure rifles in 1v1 or 2v2 is pretty terrible

but, im sure this is useful for 3v3 or 4v4

Strength
09-16-2009, 09:30 PM
Would this riflemen build change in the current patch or is everything still applicable? Also why start a building but not finish? Couldn't I start later and then have him finish? Four peasants on gold also seems risky...

You could start the buildings later, but then your lumber for the build is off. I suppose it's nice to know your base layout before putting down your smith/rax too. But yeah, if you know the numbers for lumber and such then go ahead and not start the buildings.

And I think that you have 5, because you start with 5, leave it at 4 for quite some time, then the peasant that finishes the blacksmith goes to gold, which makes 5.

Anyways, it's really fun in 3s, but has no use in solo/2s obviously as you lose all the few advantages human has early game with this. But still quite fun in 3s.

VVoLF
09-20-2009, 11:09 AM
My god I can't believe this build is still documented, letalone used. I started playing again last week and I totally refined it. Pally+Rifle destroys DK+Fiend! Just make sure you get some boots! :D

TheUndeadGuy
09-20-2009, 11:27 AM
holy shit vvolf O_O

pimp8426
09-20-2009, 11:46 AM
My god I can't believe this build is still documented, letalone used. I started playing again last week and I totally refined it. Pally+Rifle destroys DK+Fiend! Just make sure you get some boots! :D

Which part did you refine?

VVoLF
09-20-2009, 08:37 PM
* Better resource management so you're not so disadvantaged
* Arcane Tower to prevent early harass
* Earlier Altar so you'll always have a hero before the enemy arrives, even on Echo Isles
* Critical base layout
Basically the difference is 3 Footmen vs 2 Riflemen.


My general strategy against Undead (map pending) is this:
- Paladin + 2 Rifles + Militia creep expansion for level 2.
- Take 2 Clarities, Rifles and 2 Militia to the Undead base.
- If the item from your expansion was shit, sell it and buy Boots.
- Get 2 Arcane Towers up just out of Blight view whilst pressuring any critical buildings. (ie. Ziggurat so he can't get a 2nd hero, or Shop so even if he gets a Slaughterhouse up in the back of his base, he can't get any Statues out)
- Simply keep the Riflemen alive and take shots at him the entire time, continue advancing with Guard towers and bait the DK into the Arcane towers to ensure you're winning the mana game.
- Expand. He's not gonna be able to stop it now that you've got him on the defensive.
- When he starts focusing your Pally, DS+Clarity.
- Skip Arcane Sanctum completely. As soon as you get Tier 2, pick up a Bloodmage and a Workshop. (I generally start teching after the 3rd or 4th Rifleman)
- Once you've started teching, continue creeping green camps with packs of ~5 militia.
- Pick up Mana Drain on your Bloodmage and ensure his DK never casts a Coil ever again. If he gets a Lich or a Statue out, drain those as well, and Siphon the mana back into your Paladin.
- Once the Mortars arrive, it's all over.


I've been practicing this against alot of reasonably good Undead players lately and it's really powerful. When I finish refining it I'll post some replays. It works vs fiends or ghouls. Struggles a bit against CL+Beetles, but that's where the Arcane Towers come in.

Strength
09-20-2009, 09:05 PM
Woah.

Can you post the *new* build? Maybe get a new thread going, or replays? Usually I'd discourage rifles in solo but if you say that it's working versus some decent Undeads, I'm pretty curious.

VVoLF
09-20-2009, 09:10 PM
When I finish refining it I'll post some replays.
Stay tuned. I've only been back a week, still a bit rusty. :)

pimp8426
09-20-2009, 09:45 PM
Very nice. I'm interested as well to see your new build and replays.

the_ugly_organ
10-03-2009, 07:24 AM
this has been the rifle build i've used for quite some time. it's pretty complicated but once you have it down i'm fairly certain it's the best there is.

4 to gold, 1 builds altar then stops, farm then stops, barracks then stops, then to lumber
6-10 peasants to lumber

the peasant who brings it to 60 wood builds blacksmith
next peasant to bring in lumber (after blacksmith is built) goes to finish altar
next peasant to bring in lumber finishes barracks
next peasant to bring in lumber finishes farm
next peasant to bring in lumber builds farm
next peasant to bring in lumber builds tower
peasant 11 goes to gold
peasant 12 and 13 go to lumber, making grand total of 5 on gold 8 on lumber

should hit 30 wood right as barracks + blacksmith finish simultaneously to start first rifle

next 50 wood after first rifle upgrades to arcane tower
next 20 wood builds third farm

once you have another 30 wood train 2nd rifle, should come out a little after hero pops out.

overall:
1st rifle - 2:30
hero - 2:45
2nd rifle - 3:00

for some reason it's not letting me upload replay... it won't even let me attach. says "There was an error processing replay RIFLE BUILD.w3g."

can you not upload/attach vs computer? i just did a quick game vs computer to demonstrate build

vic9812
10-03-2009, 01:29 PM
sounds like a fiend build where u get unit hero unit

Veedub
01-23-2010, 10:38 PM
i tried it and it kicks ass, gj

eastdragon
01-27-2010, 12:54 PM
* Better resource management so you're not so disadvantaged
* Arcane Tower to prevent early harass
* Earlier Altar so you'll always have a hero before the enemy arrives, even on Echo Isles
* Critical base layout
Basically the difference is 3 Footmen vs 2 Riflemen.


My general strategy against Undead (map pending) is this:
- Paladin + 2 Rifles + Militia creep expansion for level 2.
- Take 2 Clarities, Rifles and 2 Militia to the Undead base.
- If the item from your expansion was shit, sell it and buy Boots.
- Get 2 Arcane Towers up just out of Blight view whilst pressuring any critical buildings. (ie. Ziggurat so he can't get a 2nd hero, or Shop so even if he gets a Slaughterhouse up in the back of his base, he can't get any Statues out)
- Simply keep the Riflemen alive and take shots at him the entire time, continue advancing with Guard towers and bait the DK into the Arcane towers to ensure you're winning the mana game.
- Expand. He's not gonna be able to stop it now that you've got him on the defensive.
- When he starts focusing your Pally, DS+Clarity.
- Skip Arcane Sanctum completely. As soon as you get Tier 2, pick up a Bloodmage and a Workshop. (I generally start teching after the 3rd or 4th Rifleman)
- Once you've started teching, continue creeping green camps with packs of ~5 militia.
- Pick up Mana Drain on your Bloodmage and ensure his DK never casts a Coil ever again. If he gets a Lich or a Statue out, drain those as well, and Siphon the mana back into your Paladin.
- Once the Mortars arrive, it's all over.


I've been practicing this against alot of reasonably good Undead players lately and it's really powerful. When I finish refining it I'll post some replays. It works vs fiends or ghouls. Struggles a bit against CL+Beetles, but that's where the Arcane Towers come in.

I, too, would love to see some replays of this in action...!! :-) So aside from the initial 2 militia that you bring to the UD base, do you bring more over to help with the tower repair / construction of guard towers? Also, do you get Devotion Aura at lvl 4 to help improve your rifles' survivability? Do u build a shop outside the UD base next to those 2 arcane towers so you can get ivory towers?

Looking forward to seeing some replays... ;-) Thanks!

CrowJam
01-27-2010, 01:27 PM
My god I can't believe this build is still documented, letalone used. I started playing again last week and I totally refined it. Pally+Rifle destroys DK+Fiend! Just make sure you get some boots! :D

This is true lol , i only hate when Undead runs arround and nukes riflfes and pala cant do a shit only staff and heal , but this requires very good reflexes.
I even dunno why pros dont play rifles , i mean damn they are very good sometimes

kumar
01-27-2010, 01:40 PM
This is true lol , i only hate when Undead runs arround and nukes riflfes and pala cant do a shit only staff and heal , but this requires very good reflexes.
I even dunno why pros dont play rifles , i mean damn they are very good sometimes
kas played pally rifles vs some orc (Cash?) and won. he got a +300 mana item tho lulz, he had a pally with over 700 mana

CrowJam
01-27-2010, 01:58 PM
kas played pally rifles vs some orc (Cash?) and won. he got a +300 mana item tho lulz, he had a pally with over 700 mana

well vs orc its luck based lol + depends how many claw drops bm got

Lemme
03-20-2010, 10:36 AM
sick post ***

primobaby
03-21-2010, 12:13 PM
sick taht u bumped 6years old thread

bluedot
03-21-2010, 08:47 PM
This build got me more wins than I can remember. Good times.