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Unread 05-19-2004, 06:38 AM   #1
IC.Shadow
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Default VVoLF's Fast Rifle Build

By request, I present a Sticky thread of the fastest build order for straight Riflemen (bypassing Footmen altogether).


This is VVoLF's straight Rifle build. This build gets you Rifles faster than any other I've seen, but it's complex, so take note.

- Send all peasants to gold, and queue two.
- Rally them to lumber, NOT gold. (You will only have 4 peasants on gold for quite awhile, so make sure you remember to take the guy who finishes the Blacksmith later, and put him on gold when he's done)
- Take a peasant from gold and START an Altar (but do NOT finish it, just start it, then immediately walk away).
- Use same peasant to START a Farm (again, just barely start it, then walk him away from it).
- Send that peasant to gather lumber, and keep making more peasants, all queued to lumber (until you get 10 food in peasants, then stop making them).
- Once you reach 100 lumber, take one lumber-gathering peasant and BUILD (not just start, but fully build) a Blacksmith. When this peasant is finished building the Blacksmith, send him to get gold, so you have 5 on gold.
- When you get to 60 lumber, take another peasant from lumber and BUILD (fully build, not start) a Barracks.
- When you get 20 lumber, take 3 peasants off lumber. One finishes the Altar you began before, one finishes the Farm you began before, and one BUILDS (not starts, but fully builds) a second Farm.
- When you get to 50 lumber, your Barracks should just be completing, so train a Rifleman, and build another Farm.
- You should then get another 30 lumber and train a second Rifleman about the time when your Altar completes.
- Train AM (or Paladin if vs UD) - you should be at 21 food (10 workers, 2 Rifles, one hero being trained).
- Train additional Rifleman as resources permit, and make 2-3 additional peasants along the way. After awhile, you should be at about 44 food.


Think that's about it. Build Lumber Mill and Arcane Vault as needed, whenever you like, and tech to tier two when you're around 30-35 food.
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Unread 05-19-2004, 08:19 AM   #2
eloso_maligno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC.Shadow
By request, I present a Sticky thread of the fastest build order for straight Riflemen (bypassing Footmen altogether).


This is VVoLF's straight Rifle build. This build gets you Rifles faster than any other I've seen, but it's comlex, so take note.

- Send all peasants to gold, and queue two.
- Rally them to lumber, NOT gold. (You will only have 4 peasants on gold for quite awhile, so make sure you remember to take the guy who finishes the Blacksmith later, and put him on gold when he's done)
- Take a peasant from gold and START an Altar (but do NOT finish it, just start it, then immediately walk away).
- Use same peasant to START a Farm (again, just barely start it, then walk him away from it).
- Send that peasant to gather lumber, and keep making more peasants, all queued to lumber (until you get 10 food in peasants, then stop making them).
- Once you reach 100 lumber, take one lumber-gathering peasant and BUILD (not just start, but fully build) a Blacksmith. When this peasant is finished building the Blacksmith, send him to get gold, so you have 5 on gold.
- When you get to 60 lumber, take another peasant from lumber and BUILD (fully build, not start) a Barracks.
- When you get 20 lumber, take 3 peasants off lumber. One finishes the Altar you began before, one finishes the Farm you began before, and one BUILDS (not starts, but fully builds) a second Farm.
- When you get to 50 lumber, your Barracks should just be completing, so train a Rifleman, and build another Farm.
- You should then get another 30 lumber and train a second Rifleman about the time when your Altar completes.
- Train AM (or Paladin if vs UD) - you should be at 21 food (10 workers, 2 Rifles, one hero being trained).
- Train additional Rifleman as resources permit, and make 2-3 additional peasants along the way. After awhile, you should be at about 44 food.


Think that's about it. Build Lumber Mill and Arcane Vault as needed, whenever you like, and tech to tier two when you're around 30-35 food.
Hi,
I still think that having few footies (2-3) is useful for creeping... but i will try this stuff.
ElOso
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Unread 05-19-2004, 02:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloso_maligno
Hi,
I still think that having few footies (2-3) is useful for creeping... but i will try this stuff.
ElOso
Well, I think with this strat you might not need footies. It depends on how fast you are and good micro.
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Unread 05-19-2004, 05:48 PM   #4
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the thing with this strat is the it will result in a slow tech which i'm afraid will result in a quick death in certain match ups, namely against orcs.
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Unread 05-19-2004, 06:08 PM   #5
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wow a idea of mine implemented :/
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Unread 05-19-2004, 06:11 PM   #6
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thats complicated
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Unread 05-19-2004, 06:14 PM   #7
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just train on it and it won't be that complicated.
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Unread 05-19-2004, 06:49 PM   #8
IC.Shadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloso_maligno
Hi,
I still think that having few footies (2-3) is useful for creeping... but i will try this stuff.
ElOso
No, use WEs to tank, or if vs UD, make sure Riflemen take some/most of the damage from creeps, and just heal them with your Paladin. It's really very easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoltan
thats complicated
It's really not. Give it a try, and if you can't do it, I'll see about making a brief replay showing you how. Sometimes, I mix up two steps, but it really doesn't matter much. Either way, as long as you basically follow exactly what I said, pretty much in the order listed, you're fine.
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Unread 05-19-2004, 07:01 PM   #9
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I fell that having 4 peasants for quite some time is a bit of a mistake. Since 1 peasant on gold can do so much more then one on lumber and your opponent will have a small advantage in gold for the rest of the game. I mean, it is going to pay later, like getting blacksmith 5 secs later and earning a riflemen.
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Unread 05-19-2004, 07:03 PM   #10
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So shadow when am i gonna be a moderator for my idea
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Unread 05-19-2004, 07:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groet
I fell that having 4 peasants for quite some time is a bit of a mistake. Since 1 peasant on gold can do so much more then one on lumber and your opponent will have a small advantage in gold for the rest of the game. I mean, it is going to pay later, like getting blacksmith 5 secs later and earning a riflemen.
If you don't have 4 on gold, and instead have 5 and one less on lumber, you will only have 10 lumber when your first Rifleman finishes, therefore not allowing you to make additional Riflemen or Farms. If you have 4 on gold for a bit, the resources work out perfectly, and you should have about 290 gold and 50 or 60 lumber, just enough to make a second Rifleman and one more Farm.

If you choose to put 5 on gold as soon as possible, it will slow you down a lot, even if it seems like it won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo
So shadow when am i gonna be a moderator for my idea
rofl.

I mean, uh, maybe later.....
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Unread 05-19-2004, 07:15 PM   #12
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any replays of this in action?
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Unread 05-19-2004, 07:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC.Shadow
If you don't have 4 on gold, and instead have 5 and one less on lumber, you will only have 10 lumber when your first Rifleman finishes, therefore not allowing you to make additional Riflemen or Farms. If you have 4 on gold for a bit, the resources work out perfectly, and you should have about 290 gold and 50 or 60 lumber, just enough to make a second Rifleman and one more Farm.

If you choose to put 5 on gold as soon as possible, it will slow you down a lot, even if it seems like it won't.

rofl.

I mean, uh, maybe later.....
but the thing with lumber is that it's very hard to tell how much lumber you should have given a number of guys on lumber since on some maps the trees are further away then other maps.
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Unread 05-20-2004, 02:27 AM   #14
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hmm i tried this out and it seems that after u pull off the 3 wood peasents at 20 wood to finish the altar, farm, and extra farm it leaves u with like no peasents on wood at until that first farm finishes. Wouldnt it be more beneficial to build these two peasents so that you could get more wood faster so instead of going to 10/12 food u got to 12/12 workers?
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Unread 05-20-2004, 04:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimbuz.
hmm i tried this out and it seems that after u pull off the 3 wood peasents at 20 wood to finish the altar, farm, and extra farm it leaves u with like no peasents on wood at until that first farm finishes. Wouldnt it be more beneficial to build these two peasents so that you could get more wood faster so instead of going to 10/12 food u got to 12/12 workers?
You can add more workers if you like, but the way it works is you take them off at 50 lumber, as I said, use 30 of it to train a Rifleman, and 20 to build a Farm. At this point, the workers building the Farms should finish about the same time, and when done, they go to gather lumber, so you should have enough for another Rifleman since the one building the Barracks will also finish around the same time (3 workers to lumber = 30 lumber in short amount of time, which you use to make second Rifleman).

Alternatively, if you like, just wait an extra 10 seconds before using the lumber-gathering workers to finish the buildings, and have them each return to the Hall one additional time, for 30 additional lumber. But anyways, after you get to 21 food (10 workers, 1 hero training, 2 Riflemen), you can make 3 more workers if you like, to go to 24 food. This way, when you reach tier 2, you will have between 36 and 45 food (13 workers, 1 hero, 6-9 Riflemen), and can still add another hero without going into Low Upkeep at that time.

You are right. There is a pause where you have very few workers on lumber, but it does work out. And if you are having trouble, just do as I said, and wait an extra 10 seconds or so, for each lumber-gathering peasant to return to the Hall one extra time, so you have 30 extra lumber (80 in total instead of 50).
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Unread 05-20-2004, 04:30 AM   #16
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This strat can be very vulnerable on solo but it owns in 2v2. I would really like to see a 1.15 replay of VVoLF using this strat, i really ike his stlye of play especially he doesn't always go the normal cheese strats. Did invent the pally+MK+BM nuke against UD? Anyway i would really like to see this strat in action also in a replay it would be easier to see the build order, y doesn't VVoLF reply to this thread, it would be to see his comments since...well he invented this strat =/
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Unread 05-20-2004, 04:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slayer
This strat can be very vulnerable on solo but it owns in 2v2. I would really like to see a 1.15 replay of VVoLF using this strat, i really ike his stlye of play especially he doesn't always go the normal cheese strats. Did invent the pally+MK+BM nuke against UD? Anyway i would really like to see this strat in action also in a replay it would be easier to see the build order, y doesn't VVoLF reply to this thread, it would be to see his comments since...well he invented this strat =/
I'll sum up my reply in point form.

1) It can be vulnerable, but only in the first few minutes of the game. After that, it's really, really good.

2) I only know of one replay of him in 1.15 and I have yet to watch it, so I'm not sure what strat he uses in it, nor what build order, though I would assume it does have the straight rifle build. If so, I'll post it within a day or two, after I watch it, etc.

3) I don't know if he "invented" it, but he is damn good at it, and he has perfected it very well.

4) He doesn't post many replays, nor reply to threads like this, because there are always a handful of people who latch onto every replay he posts, and flame him for absolutely nothing. He gets tired of the bullshit after awhile, and doesn't bother uploading anything (I can't blame him, as it's annoying getting flamed when all you want to do is provide some entertainment for people by posting a few replays). However, he does post lots of replays at www.war3live.com and you're welcome to check some there if it helps you.
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Unread 05-20-2004, 04:48 AM   #18
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holly crap thats hard but i'l memorise it and do it =D ^^ ok thanx GO WOLFY
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Unread 05-20-2004, 06:14 AM   #19
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Thnx for the quick reply shadow, i'm sad to hear that he doesn't post repays on this site, i was only able to obtain 1 v1.15 VVoLF replay from the site u posted, i gotta admit the layout of the replays section wasn't very good... anyway in that replay VVoLF went footies first against a human player, i though it might be worthwhile pointing out that fast rifles aren't as effective against human players as compared to other races in the same way fiends aren't effective against human, defend is just too strong against pierce damage.
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Unread 05-20-2004, 06:39 AM   #20
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holy shit give shadow a break. ask your mum if you need help that bad. Its a dam specific build order and it obviously works because its practised by some top players. So just try it for yourselfs and practise till you've got it down... but I geuss thats just his kind hearted nature, always willing to help people out, haha awww ^^. gw shadow really helpful.
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