What do you want in the next patch (if there is a next patch =( )

[griffer]

Originally Posted by Noobs_Gone_Wild

No they dont. Piercing does 150% to unarmored, 200% to light armor. Gargs are unarmored same as dryads.

Oh yeah gargs and hippos break the armor rule lol, sorry. The part about attack rate still applies though.

[justbritto]

^Yeah. Their non-poison dps is weak.

Like I said, 1/3 of dryad damage is poison, so for dryads it's more like 167% vs light armour and 133% vs unarmored. Also, unlike gargs, hawks are very tanky. With animal war training, they're like flying grunts. Getting close to double the hp of gargs. So they're actually about as good at fighting dryads as gargs, if not better. When you factor in all of the above, gargs still have slightly more ehp/food and slightly more dps/food than hawks when fighting dryads, and they have their stone form tricks... but there's no substitute for the hawks' pure tankiness when there's heroes around.

[Sacred Reich]

I don't know what's worse, the amount of theorycraft leaking from certain people's posts or the fact that its this thread again.

[justbritto]

^lol. Sorry. I can't help it. I am and always will be a staunch defender of pallies, alchemists, bloodmages, copters, hawks and footies, wherever they are denigrated or oppressed.

[4Fun]

hawks are terrible because elf will always have a panda which rapes the shit out of hawks regardless if they have better health or not than gargs, gargs can regenerate their health with their statue form.

[The-Noobinator]

These threads always end up with people bitching on how their race sucks and how every other race should be nerfed.

[taiwwa]

Tauren Chieftan shockwave should disorient enemies much like slam.

[taiwwa]

Destroyers should have 200 less HP. being magic immune flying unit + healable by death coil is very OP.

[justbritto]

Originally Posted by 4Fun

hawks are terrible because elf will always have a panda which rapes the shit out of hawks regardless if they have better health or not than gargs, gargs can regenerate their health with their statue form.

This is a good point.

[Infernal]

there are lots of good points here... yet you still insist hawks are good vs elf lolol

show me ONE replay of a progamer going hawks on a tavern map vs elf and winning please!

[justbritto]

Originally Posted by Infernal

there are lots of good points here... yet you still insist hawks are good vs elf lolol

show me ONE replay of a progamer going hawks on a tavern map vs elf and winning please!

And winning? lol. No. I can't. I haven't seen one where the hu wins. It's hard. I never pretended otherwise. But for that matter, hu vs ne is always hard. Hawks are just the best of a bad bunch, imo.

[Infernal]

so hawks are the best available option, yet there's not a single game of hawks winning. Wouldn't that mean HU would never win vs elf? im sorry but youre not making very much sense

[WhenPeonsAttack]

Actually, I can think of a few games of hawks winning for sky on ei. Let me do a quick search:

http://w3g.replays.net/doc/cn/2012-1...875076096.html

http://w3g.replays.net/doc/cn/2011-1...568760771.html

http://w3g.replays.net/doc/cn/2011-1...528817321.html

and a loss vs moon:

http://w3g.replays.net/doc/cn/2011-6...784771733.html

and I'm sure there are other games, maybe even him winning vs remind/moon/soccer. But Una and Tu_Xie are both very good, don't know about box.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure they are more reactionary units and probably not used at all the way Justbritto is describing them.

[Sacred Reich]

Even so, all these proposed changes and theory-crafting are for 1v1 solo. When are you guys going to realise that 1v1 is dead and won't ever be patched? The game is 100% balanced at 2v2 and tbh I can't think of any changes for UD with respect to 2v2 even though I'm a UD sympathizer.

[justbritto]

Originally Posted by WhenPeonsAttack

http://w3g.replays.net/doc/cn/2011-1...528817321.html

Cheers wpa.

I haven't watched the first 2 yet, cos I don't have evercraft/etc atm. But this game illustrates the power of hawks vs lore builds perfectly well. I'd say it's only opportunistic in the sense that hu had a strong early game. The ne is arguably outmatched, but it's still a good example. Don't forget the premise: hu needs equality of xp and gold, and appropriate heroes... which virtually requires outmatching the ne.

[Elite_Stealth]

Originally Posted by Sacred Reich

Even so, all these proposed changes and theory-crafting are for 1v1 solo. When are you guys going to realise that 1v1 is dead and won't ever be patched? The game is 100% balanced at 2v2 and tbh I can't think of any changes for UD with respect to 2v2 even though I'm a UD sympathizer.

Undead: "1v1 is broken and dead, 2v2 is completely balanced"

kinda makes sense through an undead perspective

[Kiezel]

Originally Posted by vhapter

NE vs HU and OR vs UD are the only matchups that could be more balanced in my opinion (well, maybe NE vs UD too, but I don't know how strong NE is in this matchup)

Undead dominates Nelf completely. By the SK statistics this matchup was the most imbalanced and even worse out of the 50% range then nelf dominated the orc in the dott time. For some reason however, people chose to ignore this and keep complaining about Nelf > Orc, instead of Ud > Nelf which was actually more out of balance. Only reason I can think off; is that there where more nelf vs orc matches/players, or that people just focused their attention more on the obvious cyclone, then the accumulation of all the small things ud has to dominate nelf.

Anyhow; if there is going to be a new patch:

Human:
- Reduce cloud size from Hawks.


Nelf:
- Anti magic potion can no longer be dispelled.
- Improve wellspring upgrade time.

Undead:
- Reduce frost breath to 5 seconds, down from 7.
- Give carrion swarm a damage cap, not a unit cap.

Orc:
- slightly decrease walker upgrade time.

Neutral:
- Give the Alchemist +1 starting armor.
- Fix fog-of-war drops with tinker factory.

Map:
- Fix where reallied units can run into the lab creeps on the 3 o'clock position on TM.
- Fix where reallied units can run into the lab creeps on the 12 o'clock position on GW.
- Fix where reallied units can run into the goldmine creeps on the mid-right position on tidewater.
- Add additional trees and/or move the red camps on GW to prevent them from attacking a player his base.
- Fix the green trolls camps on MV to be the same on both top and bottom spawn.

Bnet/Blizzard
- Update warden system to reduce hackers to 1%, down from 43%.
- Put at least 1 person on WC3 custom support, up from 0.
- Decrease bnet delay to 100 MS, down from 250 MS.
- Fix the AMM system.
- Fix the ELL system.
- Incase unable to join a game, give a rapid notification instead of being 'grayed out' for 2 minutes.
- Add command /showwhispers to show last X amount of received whispers from people.
- Make it unable te receive a loss when your score is =>15% then the one of your opponent (in RT?).

[griffer]

Originally Posted by Kiezel

Only reason I can think off; is that there where more nelf vs orc matches/players, or that people just focused their attention more on the obvious cyclone, then the accumulation of all the small things ud has to dominate nelf.
...
- Anti magic potion can no longer be dispelled.
- Improve wellspring upgrade time.

Undead:
- Reduce frost breath to 5 seconds, down from 7.
- Give carrion swarm a damage cap, not a unit cap.

Not that I disagree with you but... how are these changes relevant to NvU? Frost wyrms, dreadlords, and wellspring don't really matter in 90% of those matches. Could you elaborate more about what specifically in NvU is not balanced? Are ud units too powerful? The heroes? Or are ne units too weak? In what way?

- Fix fog-of-war drops with tinker factory.

Huh?

[eS_no.skiLL]

remove blademaster from game
remove tztook from this forum
make shadow strike cost 65 mana
make dryad hp more
make giants cost 350 gold instead of 425
buff ne
nerf orc
nerf ud
thanks

[eS_no.skiLL]

the only reason i commented this trolling comment is becus people are obviously trolling and not serious when asking 3hp regeneration for blight
or 100 mana cost for shadow strike ( while deathcoil 75 )
or asking talon from 135 to 175.. blizzard will never ever make such huge patching, if they ever gonna raise a price of a unit up, it will be from 135 to 145 , thats it. also if anyone wants to comment, pls comment out of common sense and out of logical brain, i mean don't come and comment after u got raped by a player and put all your emotions in this forum.. either use ur brain and comment ( not your emotions ) , or dont comment at all.