WCReplays.com Community Forums
 

Go Back   WCReplays.com Community Forums > Warcraft Forums > Warcraft III Strategy

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 09-07-2004, 06:57 AM   #1
Neptune[18]
50 Point Level
 
Neptune[18]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Card Board Box
Posts: 49
Send a message via MSN to Neptune[18]
Default Mass wyverns?

On large maps like Gnoll wood I'm having problems against Orc who mass wyverns

Gargs < BR's.
Fiends < Wyvs, especially with poison upgrade.
Destros < Wyvs and BR's again
Neptune[18] is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 07:27 AM   #2
NIGHT_echoes
300 Point Level
 
NIGHT_echoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 365
Default

out mass the wyverns .fiends are cheaper.
__________________
Doing the right thing doesn't mean your Doing the right thing.
Bnet Account:NIGHT_echoes
NIGHT_echoes:Y fiends has autocast web while raiders doesn't have?
Joshua:Cuz web comes from the fiends b*tt while nets comes from the raiders Pocket.
NIGHT_echoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 07:38 AM   #3
EvoLuTioN
75 Point Level
 
EvoLuTioN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 75
Default

u krazy mass fiends and maybe get some necros
__________________


kRaZy-@Azeroth
EvoLuTioN is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 08:17 AM   #4
RonaldC
900 Point Level
 
RonaldC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 978
Default

Fiends with web and ghouls. Wyverns can't really move into range to focus fire your fiends, focus fire wyverns with ghouls and fiends while they are webbed. Nuke heroes with DK and Lich.
__________________

------------------------------- Paper is balanced, but Rock needs a nerf. -Scissors
RonaldC is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 08:18 AM   #5
TillTheDay
25 Point Level
 
TillTheDay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 32
Send a message via AIM to TillTheDay
Default

Unholy frenzy fiends....or curse the wyvern...
__________________

Battle.net Account

"And the waters gone, and it's run away, and there's nothing left for us today. As we're falling from the sky, and every step that you may take, even though you made me cry, I will love you till the day that i die."
TillTheDay is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 09:08 AM   #6
seYo.
300 Point Level
 
seYo.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sarajevo - Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 317
Default

its become actually quite easy to beat mass wyvern since 1.16...
if you hurry up with your t2 upgrade ( at 28 food ) you will have 4 fiends, dk lich and web by the time he pulls out his first 2 wyverns. thats the best moment to attack.
head for his base when you start upgrading web. or you can drag the game a little longer.
then you should watch out for these things :
1) shadow hunter : this biatch is a huge pain in the ass with hex/ wave
so nuke him asap
2) nova on the wyverns. makes huge difference
3) watch out for your statues. dont put them on the front line. pull them back, they'll get focus fired on
4) grab rods on both heroes ( or even 3 heroes - dl is the best option )
5) burrow and damage upgrades for fiends : dont look at the unit icons in the bottom of the screen. keep your eye on the actuall fight. move out the fiend he focuses on.
if you cant move him out, burrow and coil
thats pretty much it.
seYo. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 09:50 AM   #7
FeltMarker
Out of here!
 
FeltMarker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Default

wtf? What u said does not make any sense.

1) nuke him asap= coil/nova. There goes ur nova for the wyvs. and coil for feind healing.

2)no more mana since we used it on sh

3)duh?

4)well Fuck u do that with every race.

5) do u know how easy feinds get owned!? he wouldnt survive the Whole dilema if u dont look at the bottom of the screen
FeltMarker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 10:41 AM   #8
MouldyBread
25 Point Level
 
MouldyBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 51NG4P0R3
Posts: 39
Send a message via MSN to MouldyBread
Default

what if he goes grunts at start so he has a small grunt army before he switches to wyvs?
MouldyBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 10:59 AM   #9
mylifeyourmovie
200 Point Level
 
mylifeyourmovie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 253
Send a message via AIM to mylifeyourmovie
Default

mass the fiends like it is your job.
and upgrade them.

try getting dl third for more aoe insteald of cl/impale.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Global.Threat
Don't call my man a noob!
http://www.last.fm/user/mylifeyourmovie
mylifeyourmovie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 11:08 AM   #10
seYo.
300 Point Level
 
seYo.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sarajevo - Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeltMarker
wtf? What u said does not make any sense.

1) nuke him asap= coil/nova. There goes ur nova for the wyvs. and coil for feind healing.

2)no more mana since we used it on sh

3)duh?

4)well Fuck u do that with every race.

5) do u know how easy feinds get owned!? he wouldnt survive the Whole dilema if u dont look at the bottom of the screen
1 ) only 1 coil and 1 nova is enough to kill the sh. Focus fire with fiends untill he reaches yellow health then hit coil and nova. he wont realize what happened.
2) if you have statues, and at least level 2 heroes, you have enough mana.
3) it happens to me often, that statues get in the front of my army, just a precaucion.
4) yes
5) yes I know how easy fiends get owned. thats exactly why I told you not to look at the bottom .

here's a replay . this guy wasnt really massing wyverns, he had like 5,6, and a few grunts. you can see how to use burrow, and nuke
http://www.wcreplays.com/pub_replays.php?get=6767

Last edited by seYo.; 09-07-2004 at 11:19 AM.
seYo. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 07:33 PM   #11
dnaloR-
100 Point Level
 
dnaloR-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 106
Default

I agree with what seyo said, and i have some things to add on.

first, always send skellies to scout very early game, while surviving the FS harass. if you see no rax tech, immediately grab your DK and fiends and move towards the orc base. it might be harder to scout on gnoll wood, and you might discover it late, but the timing will still be all right.

once at his base, i usually reach there with 1 dk + 4 fiends, and i'm still upgrading to hotd. immediately ff the burrows, and kill any peons that try to repair them. should the FS come to harass your fiends, focus on the wolves, or the FS himself. should he continue to go for your base, get your 3 lumber ghouls and rely on your nerubian tower for defense while attacking his base.

if he has a few grunts (fast tech late rax build), it'll be harder for you to harass, but it still can be done. focus fire on the grunts and pulling back your targeted fiends will own the grunts. when you have to retreat, go creeping and continually scout the base because he might be going grunt/raider, or grunt/mass wyvs. in the former, it will be better to turtle till tier 3 and getting wyrms or aboms etc. but in the latter, you'll still have to hit ASAP.

if you get pushed back, return to his base asap once he's finished teching. my typical army would be 1 dk, 6 fiends with web, a lich that's halfway trained, and burrow which is almost researched. you should only encounter a few wyvs (at most 2), a TC/SH and a FS. if he went the fast tech late rax build, his wyvs might not even be out yet, and he'll have around 4-5 grunts and a second hero on the way.

once there, manually web the wyverns, and kill them. when your lich is out, grab a rod, and proceed to go to the orc base. once all wyvs are killed, focus fire + burrow micro your fiends on the grunts. i prefer to leave hero killing to the last. (note: always keep your fiends separate from the DK in another group to facilitate easy manual web, rather than having to tab past your DK to web. when you focus fire, they will not autocast web, and that'll be disaster if he has a few wyvs and you don't get rid of them quickly.)

once you've killed his few wyvs, stick around and try to finish him off. do not let the orc get to tier 3 and the poison upgrade and you'll be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeltMarker
wtf? What u said does not make any sense.

1) nuke him asap= coil/nova. There goes ur nova for the wyvs. and coil for feind healing.

2)no more mana since we used it on sh

3)duh?

4)well Fuck u do that with every race.

5) do u know how easy feinds get owned!? he wouldnt survive the Whole dilema if u dont look at the bottom of the screen
1) you have enough mana on your lich to cast 2 novas, and your DK has enough mana to cast 4-5 coils at level 2-3. also, ever heard of mana potions?

2) read above.

3/4) they're just friendly reminders

5) wyverns don't own fiends fast in small numbers, and that's the best timing to attack. grunts are a harassment but burrow micro > them. as long as the fiends focus fire on the wyverns, they die quickly because of their armour.
__________________
account
dnaloR- is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 08:54 PM   #12
SuicidalOreo
Peon
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 16
Default

I would suggest not letting him get to wyvs

if he does.. fiends i guess.. maybe add a frosty or two just for some cold..

but mostly just dont let him get the wyvs
SuicidalOreo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 09:13 PM   #13
golmer
100 Point Level
 
golmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by killshift
On large maps like Gnoll wood I'm having problems against Orc who mass wyverns

Gargs < BR's.
Fiends < Wyvs, especially with poison upgrade.
Destros < Wyvs and BR's again
ok if u put it that wayyy UD can do absolutly nothing aginst mass wyvs. but tryy to OUT MASS his units either with fiends or with destros.
__________________
sig max is 450x75
G[o]LM[e]R.!.-_-.!.
golmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 10:44 PM   #14
neverever
25 Point Level
 
neverever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: diet donuts
Posts: 30
Default

ghouls+shees+some fiends+DL == GG
__________________
neverever is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-07-2004, 11:26 PM   #15
AFKforLife
25 Point Level
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 27
Default

Mass fiends until they reach critical mass (I'd say until they at least fill one control group). If he gets grunts at the start it only helps you since he'll be delaying the wyverns to get the early ground force and a small group of wyverns < fiends. If you have problems with grunts early on you can get CL + beetles for some early meat/units. If you do get CL first get DK second. Nova isn't too necessary for the wyverns once your fiends reach a large enough number because they'll just crumble on their own to fiend focus fire anyway.

It's also a good idea to hit them somewhat early, ideally when they're at the point where they're switching to wyverns and thus are kind of short on resources/units. If you've been massing like you should have, you should have enough fiends to overpower him or at least do a decent amount of damage.
AFKforLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-2004, 12:17 AM   #16
azureXsmurF
600 Point Level
 
azureXsmurF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In An Ice Rink
Posts: 674
Send a message via AIM to azureXsmurF Send a message via MSN to azureXsmurF
Default

Fiends with burrow, slow tech to destroyers and Frost Wyrms. You want to start harassing him once he reaches Tier 2. This way you may be able to pick off burrows or wandering Wyverns. The key is to keep the number of Wyvs he has down as low as possible. A low number of fiends will beat a low number of Wyverns, it's once there are a large number of Wyvs that it becomes hard to win since it's harder to heal your units. A slow tech (slow meaning as fast as you can tech without stopping fiend production until 50/50) to get a couple destroyers and one or two Frosties will help a lot, too.
azureXsmurF is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-2004, 12:17 AM   #17
Venomosity
300 Point Level
 
Venomosity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 338
Default

Like someone said, mass fiends, some 2-3 necros for unholy frenzy with 2 stats. What's gonna be hard is small maps where orc can easily harrass undead. There's little you can do then. However, this is a large map, so you would be able to make quite a lot of fiends + necros.

If all things go well after attacking, add in a frosty and eventually two destroyers (to dispel wolves or enemy haze).

Use panda as second hero. Simply haze + bof and run away fast (buy pot of invincibility, invisibiliy pot or what not). All he's there for is haze+bof one or two times at least.
Venomosity is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-2004, 12:43 AM   #18
WesTSiDE
I'm a 12 year old fake thug who spams non-stop. And now I go bye-bye.
 
WesTSiDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Los angelos
Posts: 126
Send a message via MSN to WesTSiDE
Default

i play orc and we go tc second not sh, or maybe panda for haze/bof dual aoe with cL
WesTSiDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-2004, 12:57 AM   #19
Trap
75 Point Level
 
Trap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 87
Default

i dunno but i played a game today verse Wyvern/Grunt with a BM/FS(i dont understand the hero choice tho) and i went CL/DK with fiends/destros/aboms and i whipped him pretty good, only suffered minor casualties. Oh and an expansion really really really really helps, cuz chances are ur orc freind might be doing a quick tech to wyvs while harassin, so try to expand very quick against him. Since UD techs pretty quick also, now that u have an exp you have an advantage over him, u can make a bigger army faster, and throw it at him harder, cuz u gots more gold. Anyways thats what i did and it worked for me, so maybe i was lucky, or maybe i figured out how to beat the wyvern problem.
Trap is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-2004, 01:03 AM   #20
azureXsmurF
600 Point Level
 
azureXsmurF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In An Ice Rink
Posts: 674
Send a message via AIM to azureXsmurF Send a message via MSN to azureXsmurF
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomosity
Like someone said, mass fiends, some 2-3 necros for unholy frenzy with 2 stats. What's gonna be hard is small maps where orc can easily harrass undead. There's little you can do then. However, this is a large map, so you would be able to make quite a lot of fiends + necros.

If all things go well after attacking, add in a frosty and eventually two destroyers (to dispel wolves or enemy haze).

Use panda as second hero. Simply haze + bof and run away fast (buy pot of invincibility, invisibiliy pot or what not). All he's there for is haze+bof one or two times at least.
Panda as 2nd hero as UD is pointless. It's just nuking bait seeing as it's slow and can't be healed. The whole reason UD stick to UD heroes is so they can keep them alive :P Also with the lich you get same AoE capabilities in 1 spell, it can be healed, and it can hit air units. You might not get the % miss anymore, but sheer damage is more important, as an Orc will TP before running away with Wyverns.

Also getting a temple just to get 2 necros to cast Frenzy is a waste of resources =[

Quote:
Originally Posted by WesTSiDE
i play orc and we go tc second not sh, or maybe panda for haze/bof dual aoe with cL
People went SH before last patch when they made Hexed units coilable =[ I still see a lot of people go SH to try to pick off weak units and cast Healing Wave on the Wyvs. Also helps in longer battles when DK runs out of mana to abuse Hex.

You're right though, most Orc players have started going TC again vs UD, which is actually good for stun.
azureXsmurF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.